Anything I can do without sleep training?

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My 8mo is currently waking up every 2 hours at least. His sleep has generally been bad but have had some promising weeks at times where he’s woken only once or twice. Other than this, it’s pretty consistently every 2 hours that he wakes up.

I dont want to sleep train (yet anyway!) but wonder if there’s anything else I can do to help sleep?

I don’t want to co sleep as I find I actually sleep worse…
he’s breastfed exclusively. used to self settle but teething ruined that! Not that it helped night wakes anyway when he did self settle
I feed him to sleep every time he wakes up as it’s just so hard to get him to sleep by patting etc

has anyone in a similar situation done anything and seen a tangible improvement? Otherwise when did yours sleep through the night?? I need some hope!

Why do bf babies need to night wean later? Surely they need the same amount of milk as a nonbf baby?

I did sleep training because it was best for my babies. It wasn't cruel. It worked well, and quickly, and they slept so much better, ate better during the day, we all had a better life a result. I am so confused by the idea that it's something you'd regret? It's one of the best things I did as babies.

Because breasts generally don't produce a massive bottle of milk all in one go so the feeding pattern is more often little and often, certain hormone production is higher at night meaning night feeding is particularly important for milk supply and because breastfed babies use feeding for more than just calories - it is comfort, closeness and love.

@CasaMundi a baby over a certain age doesn’t need to feed little and often. My 8 month old fed twice a day and then slept through the night. You can give comfort, love, and closeness during the day, no need for a healthy 8 month old to wake throughout the night. Healthier for everyone to get a good night sleep.

Never heard it’s recommended for BF babies to night wean later.

@CasaMundi that makes sense thank you.

I don't like the last bit you said though Im sure you didn't mean it to come across that way, people who formula feed still love and get closeness, that isn't absent because they aren't bf.

Yes of course formula fed babies get comfort, love and closeness! Goes without saying. I simply mean they don't get those things from sucking on a nipple 😁

It’s great that that worked for you but I don’t understand why you are saying this as gospel when it’s very widely recognised that breastfed babies feed on demand and that the main source of nutrition for babies under one is milk- breast or formula. It is completely biologically normal for some babies (breastfed or not) to wake throughout the night and repeatedly saying that it isn’t and ‘healthy’ babies should sleep all night has the potential to be really damaging. It’s fine to give your view and experiences but please stop spouting it as fact when it isn’t.

I don't know I what I did would be classed as sleep training but for my 3rd baby, I got to a point where I didnt want to feed her I the night any longer.

She still slept next to my bed in a cot, so when she woke I just told her no milk tonight and just shush shush pat pat. Sleepy time etc. it was difficult for a few nights because she'd cry and fuss but I was still there for her comforting her, just not feeding her. After a few nights she got it. And actually didn't wake at all after that, so she was obviously just waking out of habit for milk that she didn't actually need.

I have friends however who are too scared to try this because they predict it will be harder than they think and they're still feeding 2+year olds throughout the night.... so I'd do it now while they're less prone to tantrums!!good luck 🍀

Why is really damaging? I didn’t say a 4 week old should go without night feeds.

Biologically a healthy weight 6 month old can go 6-8 hours without night feeds. Of course you can establish feeding habits, whether they work for mum and baby is a different question. My niece preferred to feed at night and woke regularly until she was about 14 months. She hardly breastfed during the day or ate any food. She was used to drinking milk every 2 hours in the night. Do you think that’s a healthy routine for mum and toddler? Not everything has to be child driven, sleep is crucial for all family members too. And yes she screamed and cried if mum didn’t feed her at midnight/2am/4am/6am.

I disagree that you should stop BFing in the night. That would be quite cruel for an 8 month old. My 8 month old just had a phase of waking every two hours because she was teething. When I saw that tooth pop through I was so glad I had followed her lead and let her feed so much to help soothe her pain. I think she's still so young and everything's just a phase. Now, a couple of weeks later, she's sleeping better and I haven't had to 'do' anything.
Cosleeping makes it much easier for me.

Also nutritionally it's important that you let your baby feed at night still, they won't be taking in enough solids yet at all (and shouldn't be). I bet it's just teething and soon it'll be naturally a bit better anyway.

Sorry just realised you said it's been pretty consistent sorry so it's not just teething. But either way I wouldn't night wean at this early age. Sleep training is cruel, I entirely agree.
How about giving him some porridge before bed or a final snack? A friend of mine swears by it for helping her baby sleep through. I'm assuming you already have a good bedtime routine with a bath before bed etc. (So helpful for sleep.)

Sleep training is cruel, I entirely agree

Um, no. It's not. And the OP has never said that? She doesn't want to do it right now. It's not cruel. I find that such a weird way to think about it.

It’s damaging because it gives parents unrealistic expectations that if their baby isn’t sleeping through the night they are doing something wrong, and that isn’t true. You literally said ‘no need for a healthy 8 month old to wake in the night’ when actually there’s loads of reasons- hunger, comfort, pain, too hot, too cold. Sure biologically they can go 6-8 hours without a feed, but that doesn’t mean that if they don’t there’s something wrong. And your niece sounds like a perfectly normal 14 month old. If people WANT to introduce changes to get more sleep that’s fine, but nobody should feel that they HAVE to just because someone on the internet said their baby slept all night and only fed twice during the day.

As I said, great it worked for you and you can share your experience. But don’t spout your opinion as fact.

As another perspective, my baby has never self settled for sleep. At 6-8m he was waking hourly. I breastfed back to sleep every hour and then started alternating wakes with my husband, who rocked him back to sleep. We also didnt cosleep unless poorly. From 9m he was waking twice per night, since 11m only once unless teething, poorly or developmental stuff going on. You don't need to sleep train (gentle or otherwise) for sleep to improve on its own. My little boy sleeps through maybe 25% of the time and wakes once for the rest. I'm OK with this but understand that others have different tolerances, a friend whose baby woke once a night was struggling and sleep trained at 1y. I think there are things you can do to maximize sleep eg with routines (try following Doze on instagram). There won't be many sleep training options without tears at this age, even with super slow and responsive in-room methods. Nutritionally baby can maybe go longer without feeds if trained to do so (or naturally, for some babies), but feeding isn't always about nutrition. It is a comfort, and for me that need is just as valid. Please know though that it is completely normal for them to wake frequently well into their 2nd year, of course if this is something you are struggling with then you can make some changes and it can absolutely become unsustainable, but it is not a "problem" that requires a fix, it is biologically normal. Unfortunately we just aren't set up to cope with it very well what with work etc and lack of village. I hope it improves for you as it did for us, every month we said "if this carries on we will.have to sleep.train" and then things always improved for a while!

I was in the same position. I went back to work just as we went through a bad patch and honestly it was horrible, I nearly lost my mind but did nothing and DD gradually started sleeping better.

I don't remember how long it went on and we nearly gave in and sleep trained on multiple occasions (I'm in the same boat, it's just not my style). We found a way to share the wakes (e.g. DH did the 9-2 shift, I did 2-7 and went to bed at 8-9pm for a while), we'd nap ourselves whenever possible and generally drank a lot of coffee. We also found she slept better when the non-default parent did bedtime.

It's all a bit hazy now but I think DD started sleeping through more regularly when she was about 15 months (about twice a week), we did nothing differently. I stopped BF at 17 months and before that still fed her during night wakes (so night feeds clearly weren't causing us problems, I think she fed for comfort not hunger). She was getting jersey milk in a cup before bedtime too.

We've since found she sleeps best when she's had a really good connection with one of us, with lots of chat about her day before bedtime. For us that has reinforced our approach was the right one for our DD.

It's rare that DD wakes in the night now (she's 22 months) or if she does she has a little moan, rolls over and goes back to sleep in her own. When she has bad nights we know it's because she's feeling unwell, or she's had a hard day. We want to respond to that and am glad she knows we're there for her.

There's a FB group called 'Beyond Sleep Training ' that may help with some tips too.