10 week old sleep

[moonshine1234]

I have a 10 week old son who quite often won't go to sleep until 3/4am. He's EBF and will only feed to sleep (unless he's in motion in the pram/car seat) so the current routine is feed then put in the next to me and hope for the best. Some nights he goes down and stays asleep on the first try but I'm currently on iteration 4 of this tonight with no end in sight and I feel like I'm losing my mind a bit.

He also rarely sleeps during the day except for the odd power nap (contact only) and when we're out with the pram, although today did he stay asleep for an hour after we got in from our walk. This week he's also been particularly cranky during the daytime and cried through two baby classes, I know I shouldn't compare but it's difficult when yours is seemingly the only one who screams through the entire thing unless being fed.

I don't understand how he can survive on such little sleep, yesterday he was awake for almost 22 hours bar a couple of power naps on me. I'm not sure what I'm looking for from this post, I know babies sometimes cry for no discerning reason and that he's too young to get in a proper routine but can anyone please tell me it will get better at some point?! I feel close to tears nearly permanently and am more irritable than I've ever been. It's all just so much harder than I thought it would be. My partner is really supportive and we've also had people offer to help out at night but I just think he wouldn't sleep at all given he only feeds to sleep and even when we have a good night it feels like a drop in the ocean at this point...

Currently awake with my 11 week old that attempts to gouge his own eyes out and make himself vomit on his hands every time he is put down. Accept the help. If he sleeps awesome, if not he doesn't seem to sleep anyway. You need the sleep. Lack of sleep is a huge factor in post natal depression. A happier mummy that's had some sleep will feel like a much better mummy!

Is he definitely getting enough milk? My DS is 4 weeks and seems to want more milk than I can produce. When my milk is running low he feeds to sleep but then wakes up after half an hour still hungry.

If this happens a few times in a row we give him a bottle of formula (once or twice a day) which definitely helps. He’s still getting al the benefits of breast milk but it means he can stay with DH while I get a few hours of sleep.

Another Mum here with a 9 week old that won’t sleep! I feel like I might actually go insane from lack of sleep at this point.

He only settles in my arms at night - a good night is when I can get him down next to me for maybe an hour. It’s torture being stuck sat up awake nights after night.

DH takes him until midnight/1am, however even before that I’m lucky to get an hour and a half sleep at a time as I have to wake up to pump (DH gives a bottle of EBM or formula but I get ready uncomfortably full very easily) or I get woken up by DS crying.

It wasn’t this hard with my DD, who I thought was a bad sleeper, but at least she co slept in the bed next to me.

At only ten weeks don't start adding in formula as there is a risk you'll compromise your supply and undermine bf-ing. Obviously this only applies if bf-ing is a strong preference for you.

Unfortunately it is normal to have periods of terrible sleep at this early stage. It always passes with age but it feels dreadful when it is happening.

I'd focus on feeding as much as you can for now. Are you looking for early signs of wanting to feed? There are periods where they feed non stop, this is fine.

Sending solidarity to you all, while it doesn't solve the issue I do find it reassuring talking to others going through the same! I hope you all managed to get some sleep at some point. I've woken up to an extremely smiley little boy this morning and everything always seems a bit easier in the daylight.

Re the comments on feeding, I'm fairly sure he's getting enough breastmilk overall as he's gone up quite a lot on the percentile weight chart. However it's made me think about something - I pumped at about 9pm last night (and have done other evening pumps) which definitely could affect the bedtime supply and feed so will try and pump during the day to see if that makes a difference! I definitely try and feed as soon as he starts showing feeding cues and the amount of time I spend feeding has definitely decreased, we've not had any evening cluster feeding sessions for a couple of weeks.

Less time feeding doesn't necessarily mean much, they do get more efficient so get more out in shorter time. As long as plenty wet and dirty nappies, pee is light coloured etc I would think milk volume is fine. Is there a reason why you're pumping?

@FlyingHighFlyingLow I've got a wedding of a close friend in a few weeks so just trying to build up a bit of freezer supply. It's a fairly informal wedding and doesn't start until 5 so I'll only be gone for 5/6 hours. We've also been very occasionally giving him a bottle so my partner can do some feeds.

Poor you, have been there and it's so hard but I promise it does get easier. It doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong but only advice I can offer is to go outside every day in the daylight because it's meant to help set their body clock to sleep more at night, take naps together during the day and co-sleep (using safe co sleeping methods) so you can feed lying down at night. Is your HV helpful? Might be worth a chat with her for advice

My baby ended up waking every 45 mins last night. I was so tired put baby in safe cosleeping position and fed lying down. Baby still woke and fussed just as much, I still got no sleep as he kept kicking my c section scar and smacking me in the face 😂 and he has reflux (his crib is uneven to help) so he also puked all over us both as he was flat. Amazing if cosleeping works for you but doesn't for all babies. Only thing that actually settled him was holding him, which I can't sleep while doing! All I can do is hope it gets better in a few days like usually does.

Another here with a 4 month old who only feeds to sleep/in the pram.

Are you sure he’s in a deep sleep before you transfer him to the cot? I find I have to keep her on me a while after she falls asleep, but doing it once for longer ends up being quicker than doing it 7 times

I also do a lot of pram walking in day, I find we have much better nights in days she’s napped well and isn’t overtired

Sending solidarity to you all!!
My DD is now 12 months old and I don’t want to dishearten anyone but she’s still a crap sleeper. I do get some good spurts of good sleep but there is always something that sets it back - teething, illness, development etc etc!
Co-sleeping has been my saviour and I know it doesn’t work for everyone but being able to snooze and feed has helped (a skill that takes time to master so be patient if it’s not working just yet!).
Also do the contact naps in the day. Your baby needs you to sleep so, if you can, just stop and enjoy it or if you have to be on the go/get stuff done invest in a sling and use that. Good naps in the day will stop overtiredness (which is probably why he’s grouchy) and help night sleep too. Ignore all the crap online about babies needing to sleep in cribs, they don’t. In fact it’s the opposite and most babies need motion and closeness. It’s completely normal and down to survival.
Also get the help you can in the day. I was the same and didn’t want to not be there at night. But getting someone to watch the baby in the day (my MIL and partner would take baby in the sling for a day nap whilst I slept). It’s a life saver!!
Good luck to you all xx

If your pumping have you tried giving him a feed from the bottle about 10pm to see if that sustains him a little bit longer in the night. Maybe get your partner to do this bit and go to bed about 9ish so you get an hr or two

Sleep is the hardest bit of having a baby but it won’t be forever

I read every book/internet article under the sun before mine were born. Then my son came along and I realised everything was lies.

milk doesn’t “run low” if baby is nursing milk is coming. Your boobs don’t just fill up then get emptied. Yes you can get a let down but if you don’t doesn’t mean there is no milk.
If your supply is low, supplementing a bottle feed will keep supply low as your body will not think a feed is needed at that time.
it’s fine if you want to do both and it works for you then that’s amazing but what you have said is not correct and can potentially cause more anxiety to a mum who is already struggling.

We had the super early stage 0-7 weeks where she only slept on a person upright, then the 8-12 week stage where she seemed to barely sleep and screamed a lot. I'd get her down in a moses basket and get about 30mins before she woke again.

We survived with my mum and mil coming early in the morning to take over (my mum came a few times at 6am!) DH did 8pm-2am; I did 2am onwards (and until 2am slept in spare bedroom so I had somewhere away from baby to sleep). Tried to take naps if baby was napping on someone else. She is bottle fed, which makes it easier to get some dedicated time away.

She started to do longer stretches in next to me at about 16 weeks and we all moved into our bedroom then. She's 9mo and still contact naps during day but sleeps overnight in her crib with 1-2 wakes for milk

He’s definitely not too young for a routine of sorts. Try and make every day more or less the same, and make sure you differentiate day from night.

So in the morning, get him up and feed him, change out of his night clothes, put him in a bouncy chair while you get yourself sorted. Sing to him or put some music on while you tidy up or read a book or whatever. After “lunch” go for a walk with the pram. Try and get a good hour’s walk in and tell him about stuff you see (I know it sounds daft at 10 weeks, but babies like being talked to). Hopefully he will be asleep after this, but if he’s awake when you get back, put him in his Moses basket with a teddy, and go and make yourself a cuppa. If he cries, give it five minutes before you go to him. If you do this every day, eventually he will cotton on that it’s “quiet time”. You can start a bath, pyjamas, story and bed routine too. It doesn’t matter at this stage if you feel it’s not working, eventually it will click.

I felt like I was going insane when my first baby was like yours. When my mum suggested the above routine it didn’t improve things immediately by a long shot, but I felt my days had a bit more structure than just getting from one feed to the next.

There are a few things you could try.

I’d look for a local group for some EBF advice. Pumping and giving bottles can be complex, so advice from people who really know their stuff can be really helpful and reassuring. As the pp said, pumping isn’t always as effective as feeding (it can be less effective and some people get very little milk, but in the flip side can also cause over supply and mastitis) and babies don’t always feed constantly due to low supply - mine was barely off and reached 98th C (fine in a EBF baby) but there were no issues with supply. They often fuss and grab and go on and off, but some of that is increasing your supply as they grow and need more - and some is comfort.

I’d also try looking at partner taking baby for a period in the evening or early morning. My DH took my dd about 5am and sleep for a couple of hours and felt so much better for it. She’d had milk pretty much all night and was able to go the two hours. She was upset at first, but it soon became routine and was a lovely bonding time for them. He still takes her early for a bit (not as early) as I cosleep with her and it helps me have a short time to gather myself and not be a with another human before I start the day. It was a fair trade off as because she was EBF I did the night feeds.

With sleep and EBF, it’s something that sometimes becomes easier if you accept it’s going to be difficult and put things in place to help you. Whether that’s partner taking baby as I suggested above or an afternoon nap, making sure those things are in place can make lots of difference.

The last thing is that sometimes going to bed when baby goes to bed and not necessarily putting them down, but feeding to sleep on your side can help. Then they aren’t moved, but remain sleeping where they’re fed and that can mean they stay asleep more easily.

Its a tough phase, but I promise they do grow out of it and things get better!

My first son was an horrendous sleeper, in that he never slept, it was so hard. He started to sleep better at about 2 and a half years old.

I did this with dd1 but I found if very stressful and it wasn't helping her sleep on her own. With dd2 I always made sure she was slightly awake before I put her down and life was so much easier. I did the same for my last two and never has the huge sleep issues I had with my first.

@moonshine1234 id definitely try to pump earlier in the day. After breakfast/midmorning. Depending on how early your morning starts!!

we used to have a 6.30 ish feed and a 9am ish feed, then I’d pump both sides.

make sure you’re eating! Especially with regular pumping I could tell the difference as to whether I’d eaten much or not and you MUST drink liquid !!!
ultimately I could get 8+ ounces of each side - but only if I was sat drinking loads of squash/water.
it doesn’t come out unless you put it in!!

& remember anyone who tells you their young baby sleeps all night is probably kidding themselves for their own reassurances!
I do not call midnight to 6am “the night” - but I know quite a lot of people who did!!

This may seem silly, but if bf note the time of day you express as night time pumped milk works better for sleep than daytime pumped milk. It could just be cluster feeding and a growth spurt is imminent trying to make you produce more milk. Not any use for sleep advice but could explain why it is happening. If you have anyone that could take the baby out for a walk in the pram ( or just out) while you get your head down for a power nap of your own ...let them! And any proud ( or even mediocre)cooks that could bung you a few meals ...let them ! As for housework errm sleep for you might be more of a priority than noise whilst the babe sleeps . It feels like a lifetime, but it does get better. You are all learning .

I feel for you … my eldest (now 3.5 years ) was like this.

so much so that I rang the GP as I was genuinely worried about her lack of sleep.

was asked various questions about whether they were generally happy and having wet and dirty nappies etc and because all ok, was told some babies just need less sleep!

she did grow to need more sleep … just felt awful at the time.