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Sleep Training - can anyone help figure this one out?

7 replies

EnormousChangesAtTheLastMinute · 15/03/2008 15:43

I've been sleep training dd2 (six and a half months)for almost four weeks now. Now when i put her down awake at the beginning of the night she will cheerfully and without crying put herself to sleep BUT she still wakes up several times a night and needs shushing and patting.
Typically she goes down between seven and half seven and is awake again between nine fifteen and nine thirty - last night it took 45 mins of cring to get her back to sleep.

It varies from then how many times she wakes up but it's always too many!

I give her a dream feed and then feed again around three a.m. I tried dropping early hours feed but she cried for two and a half hours and as she isn't keen on solids i figured she was hungry so decided to stick with it for now.

I thought once they could settle themselves they would do so whenever they woke unless really hungry so how come the little blighter is bucking the trend?! What am i doing wrong?! Any thoughts anyone?!

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jazzandh · 15/03/2008 15:59

check out this site here loads of advice from people who have experienced the exact same thing. Kept me sane.....

Sounds like your DD may be overtired,(root of most sleep problems) hence the constant waking - otherwise she should be able to put herself back to sleep. How does she nap during the day? What time is the last nap.

IME my DS would wake like this when overtired and had had a shorter nap too early in the afternoon. Or after a spell of nightwakings etc.

I used to put him to bed early for a few days to correct the position. Once he had caught back up on sleep (needed to after night wakings) he would then sleep through.

HTH - you are not alone!

WanderingTrolley · 15/03/2008 16:03

Is she hungry when she wakes at 915pm?

tbh I think she's too young for sleep training, I wouldn't bother for a few months at least

Having said that, I know of one mner who's had success with sleep training a 6 month old. You're not doing anything wrong, she's just pretty young to be sleeping through the night.

PuppyMonkey · 15/03/2008 16:09

I seem to have posted this same message about five times this week, but... drop the dream feed and see what happens! We did this at six months with dd2 and it worked. I believe we were disturbing her by giving her this feed and not letting her learn to sleep for a long stretch at night. Within a few weeks she was really going for long stretches.

jazzandh · 15/03/2008 16:36

Ok what happens is that they fall into an exhausted sleep at 7/7.30pm and follow three deep sleep cycles ( which is why you can bash around in their rooms early in the evening). Each sleep cycle is roughly 45mins. When they are really really overtired, they will wake during this period.

After 3 cycles - roughly 2 1/2 hours, they transition into lighter sleep, and this transistion can cause problems if they are not used to settling themselves, or overtired, so they stir more and wake.

I would think it is very little to do with feeds to be honest at this point.

You may have some success at going into the room just before you would expect her to wake for the first time, and just keep a hand on her, to sooth her into the next sleep cycle. This means less disturbance at this point, so she will start to catch up on the sleep.

As she becomes more rested, I would expect that the wake-up times become later in the night. Generally from my own, and others in a similar position's observations, the earlier the wake-ups the more overtired.

You could try cluster feeding earlier in the evening, then missing the dreamfeed out, thus as mentioned, avoiding that episode of disturbance. Perhaps wait for a wake-up to feed and sooth back to sleep.

Generally if they can settle at naps and at bedtime, it's not a sleep training issue. You have done really well to get her to do this part already. My DS was too tired to get to sleep in the first place!!

Sorry for long ramble - but hope it makes sense.

EnormousChangesAtTheLastMinute · 15/03/2008 17:58

thanks all. to answer your questions...

i was pretty much obliged to sleep train - or take things in hand - as we'd got into a silly situation where she was snacking all day and waking all night and it just wasn't good for her, me or dd1.

i really don't expect her to sleep through - i just hate listening to her cry for such a long time. i'd be happy to sooth her to sleep if that's what she needs every couple of hours but what worries me is her apparent distress.

her naps are a bit hit and miss. not good yesterday - two of around half an hour each but today one of about an hour am and two hours pm (woke her up at 1600 as didn't want to damage chances of good night tonight)

I don't think she is usually hungry at 9-ish and often can be settled with a calming hand - so will try sneaking in at 9.15 tonight and keeping hand on chest to see if that helps soothe.

thanks again for all input. i'm off now to begin bedtime routine but will be back to check website jazzandh!

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jazzandh · 15/03/2008 19:30

naps were always a difficult area with us - so I know where you are coming from. God, I walked and walked to keep DS asleep for longer!

I would say that if you have a bad nap day - aim for super early bedtime (if you possibly can) - 6/6.30pm, preferably no more than 2 1/2 hours after wake-up. It will help to get more sleep in, and then as she becomes more rested - the naps may well lengthen.

I also found, that there would be a day when sleeping was good, but it's almost like they are sooo tired they crash, then it comes back again!

Just try some earlier bedtimes for a couple of days in a row (or whenever there has been an upset in pattern) and I am sure you will find things improve! Good naps today - mean a good basis to start from.

It took me a long time to suss this out with DS over a year- I read every sleep book, lived on babywhisperer - and in retrospect - poor Ds was probably knackered, and if I had got him to bed earlier would have made the difference from the start.

I ended up staying in his room for hours at night - soothing him back to sleep - before i cracked it.

So hopefully this gives you a "heads up". It has worked ever since (and with lots of friends!)

Good luck.

EnormousChangesAtTheLastMinute · 16/03/2008 16:43

yes, have brought bedtime half an hour earlier for the last two nights to see if it made a difference. but she's not well today (how do i know? she's sleeping and sleeping) so all bets are off.
but last night and today before she became ill i was starting to wonder whether me being with her and shush patting or just being in eyeline is putting her off when she's trying to drop off. maybe i'd be better out of the room...
but will have to see how she is before i look into that one. this afternoon it's all about falling asleep on my/dh's lap. poor little thing. hope she's ok...

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