Been sleep training for 8 weeks

[Hopingforarainbow27]

Hi. Has anyone experienced similar.. my baby is now 8 months old and has resisted sleep from as far as I can remember. She gets really tired and gurny, rubs her eyes, red eyebrows, yawning but she will never wind down and go to sleep. I've tried wake windows, nap routine, rocking, cry it out, pick up put down, sleep coach, pram, car, white noise, night light. Basically everything I can think off. Also tried just giving up and not bothering trying to put her down at all but then I regret it come 4pm because she will constantly cry and then resist bedtime and be up during the night. When she gets more sleep during the day she is a happier baby, not as many night wakes and doesn't resist bedtime. People have suggested it could be regressions etc but she has literally been like this from the beginning. When she does finally go over she will be awake within 20-30 mins and then she appears to be tired again within an hour. It's like she has a real fear/anxiety about it. She gets so worked up about it.

Not sure I'm qualified to help but we just sleep trained successfully using a consultant. Julia fensom, it was £120 and well worth it! We used cry it out. Not sure if you'd be willing to try again if you've already done it though I guess.

Sounds like you're not actually teaching your baby to relax their body and ho yo sleep. This is a learnt skill. Like all other learnt skills, you start small and build up skills with consistency and repetition.

Your 8 month old baby is not anxious or afraid - they are a long way off such complex concepts. They are simply at the 'not yet learnt so have no concept what's expected of me' stage.

The key thing here will be to establish a method for going to sleep (ideally independently). Start small in that journey, not expecting too much. Stay consistent and make gradual changes towards the end point.

Sounds very difficult OP. I don’t have any magic answers, but something which I have sworn by: I put my baby down the second she seems tired so she never gets overtired. Her routine is:

Exactly 7am every day, up and solids
8am nap
9:30 bottle
11 nap
12:30 solids
3pm bottle
5pm solids
6pm bed

I read that a precise morning routine is the best way to sort out the night time and evening routine, and for us, this has really helped. We woke her up at 7am since she was a few weeks old, and she has been sleeping through the night since she was about 4 weeks.

Sorry OP. Sleep training isn’t for every baby, particularly those suffering with separation anxiety.
There is literally no answer, just suggestions you can try. Every baby is just different, with a different temperament and differing sleep needs.
Half the time the magical thing people swear worked for them is just a coincidence, and their baby was ready to sleep through at that particular time.
No advice, just solidarity.
My only suggestion if you can is to try contact naps during the day (even with a baby carrier so you can still do stuff). Babies are usually calmest when held and if she sleeps on you during the day she may sleep better at night. I found this with my LO (6months). After a few weeks of this she was suddenly okay with being put down for naps (perhaps felt more secure in her bond with me, but could be talking utter nonsense).
If she is feeling fear/anxiety then IMO she needs more closeness with you, not less.

Now really probably won't be the best time to sleep train as at 8mo they start to have separation anxiety and also a sleep regression. Mines a sleep fighter still at 13mo so I know what you're going through. Hang in there and try establish as much of a routine as possible, it will get better 😊

@Anonnewbie I had my first consultation with Julia yesterday, she’s fab! Also doing CIO and it’s nowhere near as bad as I imagined. @Hopingforarainbow27 I would definitely go to a sleep consultant if I were you, i thought I was doing well with wake windows, sleepy cues etc but actually there were lots of little mistakes I was making

This. 8 month regression is a terrible time to do this.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply to me.

@FATEdestiny how can I teach her to relax? I do a short nap routine to help her wind down but as soon as I start putting the sleep sack on she will start the protest!

@SiennaMillar just curious, does your baby sleep an hour after waking up? And doesn't nap again from 11am until bed? What age are they?

I don't even mind the nighttime wake-up's that much it's more during the day the crying and resistance is very hard for both of us. Currently contact napping with her now. She didn't fight this time thankfully. Didn't have the mental strength to try put her in the cot. Will try again tomorrow!! Also I did pay a sleep consultant 8 weeks ago and my little girl actually started to get it after about 4 weeks and then we moved house and ever since she's been back to the start even though I've kept everything the exact same.
I also compare her to how my friends babies sleep which isn't healthy and I know I shouldn't but that's just where I am!

@Devilsmommy @booksandbrooks
Will the seperation anxiety pass? Should I wait and start again once it does?

My baby is 11 months and has never wanted to sleep. Every nap time he goes in his room with white noise and dark I rock him to sleep and then put him down. He wakes every 45 mins so I repeat the process and he will sleep for another 45 min.

He has 2 naps a day like this. He won't sleep in pram or car this is the only way he will do it. At night he will begin the night in his cot then ends up in my bed. I also tried sleep training methods and made myself unwell with stress. Just do what you can to get sleep. Maybe try reading a story in your little ones bedroom, and then just try holding or rocking to sleep.

I've tried wake windows, nap routine, rocking, cry it out, pick up put down, sleep coach, pram, car, white noise, night light. Basically everything I can think off. Also tried just giving up and not bothering trying to put her down at all
Has this all been in the 8 week window you’ve supposedly been sleep training for? Whatever you decide to do, you have to stick to it consistently.

And personally I’m not sure I buy all that ‘regression’ stuff. Babies are always going through big developmental changes, learning new skills etc. Separation anxiety can be a thing up to the toddler years, then there will be pulling to stand in the cot, walking, 1 year molars, they’ll get a cold from nursery, then they could be climbing out of the cot. There’s never a perfect time to do it so if you’ve made up your mind to train then as long everyone is in good health you may as well crack on. Just be consistent with whatever method you decide on.

We sleep trained at 4 months during a regression which I've seen people advise not to do. but we physically couldn't continue it was so bad - nothing worked for us, we would have coslept or fed to sleep or anything but he was having none of it and none of us were sleeping. So I wouldn't rule out training during a regression, however only you can know I guess if you're dealing with separation anxiety and CIO or similar might be scary and stressful.

If you've got some level of night sleep and had success in the past maybe you do just need consistency and patience and gentle step by step learning? Good luck

@Anonnewbie how did sleepnttaining at 4 months go? In the thick of the regression..

@Bullzeye this is exactly the same as us! If she wakes in her got after 30 mins I can usually go in and rock her back over (might take 30 mins) but she could sleep another 30 mins to an hour so I know she needs it!
@InTheRainOnATrain I've been doing most of those things from about 3 months but have had the sleep coach from 8 weeks ago

@testy1997 Interestingly 4 months is usually said to be the ideal time to start in the US, including by paediatricians. I’m sure convenience and the short maternity leaves are a factor, as 3-4 months off is about standard if you work at a large company. But if it was such a no-go or would be unlikely to work then I’m sure it wouldn’t be recommended so widely 🤷‍♀️

What did your sleep coach do? Because whatever it was, you need to carry on being consistent with it. You probably need to take a backwards step in terms of progress since moving house, but the basics will still work. As much as you will deny this, the reason nothing is sticking is because you're not being consistent enough.

I've tried wake windows, nap routine, rocking, cry it out, pick up put down, sleep coach, pram, car, white noise, night light.

These Are all different things. You need to pick one.

What are you currently doing to get baby to sleep?

@testy1997 broadly good. I was worried as he has bad reflux and frothy poos from feeding issues so I had images of him screaming vomiting and pooing, however I literally had no choice as I couldn't physically keep up the rocking. In the end it was fine. It's not nice to hear him cry but it worked from day one. About an hour to get to sleep the first time, with peaks and troughs of crying. A few times I thought no this will never work and then he'd calm down and nearly fall asleep before I went in so i left him. Once asleep, he woke and cried much less at 2am, then woke for the day at 6.

Since then, he does usually cry a bit before sleep but it tends to be either 1-2 minutes of furious screaming and then sleep (when he's too tired I think), or 10-20 minutes of moans, babbling, complaining etc.

Naps have been much harder and we've had to set boundaries of how long we will actually leave him for if he's not sleeping ( aiming for an hour if we know he definitely needs to sleep, 20 mins if he has slept then woken up early).

He woke and cried for quite a while on and off last night at 3am, which is roughly when I usually feed him so probably habit but I can't help thinking he's hungry (he could definitely go longer without food but he's not in the habit) so went in and fed him when he stopped crying for a few moments. We are just trying to decide whether to go in when he cries at night now because it's for a reason, or whether that will undo all the work we've done...very hard to say! I don't believe he's ready to go overnight without food but that's what our plan was aiming for.

Overall it's been life changing. I have a happier baby, happier me, happier partner. I don't believe for a moment the people that say they learn not to cry for help - he very clearly does continue to cry if he has a dirty nappy or is hungry or whatever. Hunger is a tricky one to provide without encouraging frequent feeds, but other times when he has woken up and not gone back to sleep reasonably quickly, and been crying, he has had a dirty nappy and has gone to sleep when we change it.

Also, the person who suggested a fixed wake up time is right I think - seems to be one consistent piece of advice across all styles of sleep training. We let it go to pot one day last week and it did seem to cause chaos the rest of the day!

DD would fight hard for every nap and would only contact nap. Often that wouldn't even work and she would get herself terribly worked up even though she was exhausted. The worst was when she got too big to be comfortable in arms. Putting her in a baby carrier and walking about reliably worked as did the car but these weren't always options.

Shortly after she turned one something just clicked and since then she goes for naps in her cot every day. I never thought it was possible, but it just happened with no real work on our part. I had also tried many techniques and nothing worked until she was ready to do it herself.

@FATEdestiny she said start with patting a ssshjng and pick up set down when getting too worked up. So I have been doing that consistently for 8 weeks. The car/pram etc was things I had tried before resulting to paying a sleep coach 🙆🏼‍♀️

Thanks @user14728317878987 I think my daughter is the same. It will be on her terms in her own time 😂

Thank you everyone though, it helps slightly to know it's not just me going through this phase!

You think an 8 month old baby cannot deal anxiety or fear?

Ihatethenewlook in any way the OP suggested fear/anxiety affecting naps, yes. At 8 months baby is only just understanding object perminance. To suggest complex action = consequence = conscious change in behaviour, at 8 months old, is physiologically impossible unlikely.

she said start with patting a ssshjng and pick up set down when getting too worked up

What age did you do the coaching? Because PUPD gets less and less affective onwards ftom 6m.

I would just do consistent shush-pat

@FATEdestiny when she was 6 months I started it. She's only just turning 8 months on Tuesday.
I'm going to consistently try again from tomorrow.