doctor made me feel criminal for asking for sedatives to help dd sleep

[flower68]

We have been in a living hell for the last 2 months because dd aged three has started waking earlier and earlier and is now starting the day at 4.30 am. She shares a room with ds aged 20 months - we live in a 2 bed house and this means everyone is awake at 4.30. We have tried everything we can think of - the puttng her back a million times without speaking to her, a reward system, putting up a baby gate to stop her getting out, giving her more to eat b4 bed, no telly in the morning if she does get up too early. We have bought the bunny alarm clock to show her what time is OK to get up (6) and the kids bedtime routine is very established, bath, story, bed.

Both dh and me work, dh a musician and often gigs in eve as well all day work.

Things have been getting more and more desperate with dh bellowing at dd, threatening and giving smacks and the whole house bedlam.

While this has been going on I was pregnant but lost the baby at 12 weeks - altho' dd's probs not connected to this as when I lost the baby she has already started waking early.

On Thursday, completely at the end of my tether I went to the GP and asked if she could prescribe a sedative for my daughter to give all of us some breathing space. I don't think she has kids, she went all pink and said under no circumstances would she give sedatives and made me feel like a terrible parent for asking. As if I would if we weren't completely desperate. The Tania Byron book mentions sedatives for exactly this sort of situation so it can't be that bad.

GP went on to suggest buying a cot with higher bars (!!) and telling us that we needed to persevere and "break her will" (which sounded much worse than giving her sedatives) and that maybe we needed parenting classes via the health visitor.

I was really unhappy with this advice and rang the surgery to say so. Luckily another GP with a bit more empathy (and possibly also a mother?) agreed to give us a mild sedative for dd to help get some sleep before tackling the problem again. Health visitor also due to ring us to discuss prob so feel I am finally getting some help.
Has anyone else experienced this?

And why was GP behaving like a social worker? Who is she to judge me as a parent on meeting me once for 5 mins?

Am generally a bit worried that dd seems to have a will of iron and real probs with doing as she's told altho' she can be a real sweety too.

What time does dd go to bed? Does she sleep during the day? Could you move ds into your room so he can sleep later?

We have fairy lights on a plug in timer so the younger two know when they're allowed to get up at the weekend (9am ).

flower68 - I don't know what time you are putting your DD to bed, but my DS is nearly 2 and he will under no circumstances go to bed before 10pm and he will be awake by 7am. Some people seem to be built to live on less sleep. Other than putting her to bed later, making sure there is never a day time nap all I can suggest is would she cuddle up in bed with you and DH? I have my DS in bed with us because he just won't sleep otherwise. Agree that GP's advice was not at all helpful and am totally at putting a 3 year old in a cot with high bars!

I don't think it's fair to assume the first GP doesn't have kids because she didn't want to prescribe sedatives to a healthy child to be honest.

but I do know how you feel. I think you need to look at bedtimes/naps like rachaelsarah says, and also think about swapping rooms (maybe on alternate nights) so at least some members of the household get some sleep. You don't say how old she is, but I assume she's at least 3.5 - if so another option is to take her downstairs, stick cbeebies on, read riot act and go back to bed. that's what I do with ds, as he simply doesn't need as much sleep as anyone else.

Sleep deprivation is extremely hard, it's no wonder it's used for torture.
We don't have a sleeper in ds2, has never slept through yet and wakes up at 5am every morning, but he's 13 months so I'm hoping he'll grow out of it.
I have 2 more to look after during the day as well, and it is very tiring. I reassure myself that this too shall pass, otherwise I'd sob!
A bath 1/2 hr before bedtime, meal 1hour before bath, calm storytime and a structured routine does help, but may take a couple of weeks at least to get established.
Lots of exercise in fresh air during the day and no daytime naps works wonders too.
Personally, I would never medicate my children with a sedative. I hope the HV has some advice for you.

Thanks so much for advice so far. DD goes to bed 7.30-8.
Just to clarify - did not suspect GP might not have kids because she refused to prescribe sedatives (which is her right) - it was her overall lack of empathy and suggestions like buying a cot with high bars and the need to "break her will" that made me wonder!!

Oh and check there is no light getting in through the window. Blackout curtains/blind are essential here for my other 2.

you can actually buy Calpol night and Medised (it's basically the same thing) over the counter at the pharmacy if desperate...

...But I believe from when DS was like this some years back, that it is resetting the waking time, not the bed time that is crucial. I haven't tried the full recommendation (can't remember the book I read it in) but some sleep doctor suggested the following: get an alarm clock, set it for BEFORE the time DD normally wakes up. Keep doing this for as long as you need for her to be used to waking up this way (obv requires some willpower and commitment from whole family) then you adjust the waking up time later by about 10-15 mins a few days at a time. At 3 she would probably also respond well to a sticker chart/rewards to reinforce this. And the sedatives might help get her into the swing of things.

FWIW my oldest kids always slept best when sleeping more, so they slept worse at night when they dropped their nap in the day, despite what everyone else said. Perhaps they got over tired.

And don't go back to that GP. Tosser.

And actually, some doctors DO recommend sedatives for dealing with ingrained sleep issues, just to break the habit. But can't remember where I saw that either. Not much help.

The problem with sedatives are many. By 4.30 am they will have worn off anyway. They make my dd3 hyper instead of sleepy, which isn't helpful tbh!

Sorky has an excellent point with lots of fresh air and running around during the day, and NO SLEEP until bedtime. This might mean big meal has to be at lunch time because she might be a little tetchy by tea time!

monkeybird you speak sense

sleep seems to breed sleep and a lack of it the same

we are having trouble with dc5 waking early (6.30) and i think i may encourage more sleep to counteract it - rather than - an some suggest later to bed

I too don't agree with later to bed. If you do enough during the day she'll be so worn out by 7.30 she'll be asking for bed!

I don't see how a sedative will make any difference to early morning waking?

Does she still nap? I know it is easier for nursery staff to put them down for a nap, but I would cut this out IMMEDIATELY.

I do think the need for a nap depends on the child though. My older ones have always slept BETTER when having a nap (up until about 4/5) and the sleep problems started when nursery stopped the nap... It's worth experimenting with this to see, at the very least.

I mean 4/5 years old, not a.m.

Actually I think 7.30 is a little late for 3yo, why don't you try 15 mins earlier each night until you reach about 6.30-6.45pm.

My nephew sleeps 13 hours if put to bed at 6.30pm. If he gets to 7pm that's guaranteed to be an early wake up for my sister. It's honestly that tight!

Is she toilet trained?

Have you tried lifting her before you go to bed? (Maybe uncomfy bladder making her wake?)

My dd has often been like this - sheer misery for the whole family. My dd is 4.5, dd2 is 15 months so I completely sympathise. Two days ago we were all up at 4.30am (dh sleeps in a different room so he can get some sleep because he looks after them during the day).

TBH her phases usually happens when she is feeling unsettled or is ill. The more hostile we get, the worse the situation gets. She often has bad dreams. Also she has just started school, and that has caused anxiety.

She also did this a lot at about 3 yrs old. I have found (from bitter experience) that these are the times she needs more attention, more cuddles, etc. - but you're so tired you just feel like shouting!

A bit of one-to-one time might help her feel more secure. It must be hard with your dp gigging and having to deal with them both on your own. My advice is ease up on her, give her lots of comfort, make her feel secure, and she'll be less demanding.

A health visitor recently told me that very early waking is due to over- tiredness. Research apparantly shows that the child should be going from REM (dreaming) sleep back into a final deep sleep at the ungodly hour of 4.30ish, but (due to over-tiredness) their brain isn't sure what to do so they wake up instead.
My DS had improved a bit before HV told me this but it's definately helped - he's 2.3 so growing out of needing afternoon naps (never wants to) but now I insist that he does have one on days that he looks at all tired. He's now waking at 6.30 most days instead of 4.30.
Good luck with it - it's miserable. Sorry your GP wasn't more sympathetic - maybe HV would be better or ask if you can be referred to a sleep clinic.

Oh - she also did it more when I started back at work -it was her way of getting more time with me. Tho' god knows why she wanted to spend time with the grumpy gibbering wreck I was at 4am!!

I also have a rule. Before 6am is NOT morning. So we get up for a while (30 mins). Have a wee, glass of water, chat. Then back to bed.

Maybe a silly idea but if you bought her a wind-up torch, would she stay in bed and look at books for a bit?

It is quite boring if you can't sleep but you have nothing to do. She clearly isn't going to go back to sleep until she's through this phase, so I would aim just to get her to play quietly in bed.

God, I have an 8 month old who is generally sleeping through the night from 7pm until 6.30 am and I find that hard enough! I've got all this to look forward to. You are all amazing! Well done.