2 Yr old DS has never slept properly

[CaptainSweatpants89]

Hi all,

Becoming really frustrated. My DS is 2, with a stable home life and a semi-decent routine (nursery 4 days a week). He has NEVER slept through the night.

As a baby he was on neocate amino acid milk, and we assumed that (despite our efforts to embed a clear routine he still wouldn't sleep) it was because the milk just isn't very satisfying.

He is now on cows milk, super stimulated all day and engaged, but still won't sleep.

We're at a point where we've actually scrapped bedtime and let him dictate when he's tired. Last night it was 10.05pm when he fell asleep cuddling mummy.

Historically, we've attempted to get him to bed at 8pm, no screens, low lights, all the Google suggestions to create a sleepy environment, and still he resists. I've spent up to an hour and a half at its worst, but an hour on average, attempting to get him to sleep and have tried various strategies.

Not only does he take so long to fall asleep, but he wakes between midnight and 2am for his bottle which is fine, but then he'll wake multiple times after that screaming, whinging, constantly restless and crying. Sometimes really genuinely sad tears.

We are at a stage where he wakes for his bottle and mummy sleeps next him, cuddling him in (as he wants), but will still roll over and scream spontaneously in the night.

Does anyone have any suggestions or a toddler/child who is or was just as difficult with their sleep? How have you overcome it or how did you? When will this end?

Stop the bottle. It should be a sippy cup, and I’d only offer water in the night.

Sorry, I have no answers but just wanted to say we have the same with our 2yr old. It’s horrible and very isolating, knackering and just feels like it will never end so I totally understand your frustrations.

She was exclusively breastfed and after months of battles I finally weaned her about 6 weeks ago. This hasn’t changed a thing. She still wakes every 2-3 hours.

We also have screaming / very upset wakings which we think must be night terrors - she just pushes us away and doesn’t seem fully awake but she doesn’t resettle herself so we have to wait around or rouse her awake as best we can. She seems very restless some nights too, even when she sleeps with us, which she inevitably ends up doing most nights.

We’ve had some sleep consultants suggest perhaps there’s something medical going on like obstructive sleep apnea but aside from the restlessness and constant waking we’ve had no other big symptoms. Maybe something you could explore too? We haven’t ever thought to go to the doctors cause I’m not sure she has enough symptoms but we’re getting to the point where we just feel we need to explore every possibility.

On the late night thing - do have a look at the Baby Sleep Revolution - Georgina May, on Facebook, Instagram and she has a website - if you haven’t already. Is your son still napping? Perhaps having too much day sleep and is perhaps low sleep needs? Anyway please do check it out, it’s helped us a little at certain stages. Our daughter is going to sleep around 9pm most nights now but some days she’s not napping and it’s ended up being an 8pm. Think she’s definitely at the lower end of sleep needs and has never fitted into the 7-8pm “normal” bedtime. She also wakes early.

Aside from this I’ve followed various Instagram accounts since she was born which have helped us realise that we aren’t alone and that all kids are so different and many of them don’t fit into the “normal” patterns that so many people try to push onto you -

littlenestsleep
Secondstartotheright

I have to say that following these accounts hasn’t always solved our sleep problems but it has certainly offered us an alternative to the generic sleep training angle that often gets pushed onto you.

Hope you get some sleep soon! We just have to tag team in our house to get any sleep. And don’t know about you but any thoughts of a second child have completely gone out the window!! We want this one to sleep first!!

Hi @CaptainSweatpants89 - my son is nearly 3.5 and what you’re describing is exactly what we experienced (Neocate, broken sleep for 2+ years, days with reasonable stimulation). Worst time of my life and blighted much of the early years of parenthood. It did get better but felt like an eternity - sleep training did nothing, I read tons of books. Everyone’s child seem to sleep except for mine and I felt very isolated and tired. The paediatrician (nicely) told me we had to ride out as there was nothing wrong with him, but that we needed to find safe ways for my husband and I to rest.

What eventually worked for us was:

-I stopped trying to cut his milk overnight via a sippy cup as he just got frustrated and it did help him settle faster. He eventually dropped it on his own at about 2.5.
-We became strict about when to start bedtime as the later we went, he would get more overstimulated and harder to settle. Bath time by 6.15, lights out at 7. Sound machine is the signal and that stays on all night. If he wanted to fall asleep with milk or in our arms we did it. This was probably the most beneficial but took time transition to given how late we were going.
-No napping past 3pm, no matter what time he settled for the afternoon nap. Some days were harder if he settled late because he would be so grumpy, but this helped a lot too.
-He seems to sleep better with socks on.
-If he woke after midnight my husband and I would take turns and take him to the spare room with one of us (pushed the bed against the wall so that I wasn’t afraid of him rolling). Many will tell you this is a crutch blah blah blah. I’m sorry I waited so long to do this. He settled quickly most of the time and crucially we’d also sleep.
-Amazon suctioncup blackout curtains against the windows, blackout blinds, blackout curtains. The only useful thing I read was that if you can see your hand in the dark it’s too light in the room.

He started sleeping through before he turned 3 and now sleeps in his own bed. There are occasional off nights but it’s much improved. He does sometimes make a cry when transitioning sleep cycles but the doctor told me to give it 30 seconds before going in as he might not actually be awake. Our new challenge is that he wakes by 5.30am no matter what (makes sense on about 10-11 hours of sleep), so we have to disciplined to go to bed at a reasonable hour for the earlyish wake, but I’ll take that over what we had before.

I hope things improve for you soon.

Some kids just dont sleep through the night. Mine was well into reception the first time he did..

I take it the bottle is milk? Milk is food ultimately. It could be the thing that’s making him restless. Not only by waking up his digestive system, but giving his body and brain an energy boost. At 2, he definitely doesn’t need it.

We had a week of hell here and there, continuously having to return screaming toddler to bed every time they got out during the night and using cry it out technique.

it wasn’t pleasant for any of us, felt bad for my dc and wasn’t great going to work on two hours sleep but it did work.

DC seem quite well balanced so don’t think it traumatised them in the long run. We both work so co sleeping and getting up for drinks in the night just wasn’t an option for us.

DS1 never slept.
When he was 2, his younger brother arrived, and DH had to take over toddler wrangling. I dealt with the newborn. The extra sleep was most appreciated!

We got improvement when his language was upto "if you wake Mummy tonight, she will be too tired to go swimming tomorrow".

He's now a teen. I don't think he sleeps through. I often hear him in the middle of the night - but he doesn't wake us deliberately

He will either start sleeping through, or will get to the point of not needing you in the middle of the night. It might not be before he starts school tho. Sorry. Sleep training didn't work.

My child didn't sleep reliably until they were about 8.
What works for many children won't necessarily work for yours. Just do whatever you need to, to get as much rest as possible.

you probably have but have you tried not having dairy where you say they were on neocate I no you say the sleep has been bad since they were born but both of my children can’t drink cows milk they can tolerate little bits every now and then in foods etc but deffo wouldn’t be able to drink milk regularly same with ice cream yoghurt etc

My eldest was like this and only started sleeping when prescribed melatonin when at primary school.

Five year old and she now sleeps fairly consistently through but this is recent and was very similar at 2. We dropped the nap at 2years 3 months which meant she went down more easily but still unsettled later in the night. I think the milk won’t help him settle and paediatrician told us to stop overnight at ten months - she has some amount of dairy intolerance and I think she was often uncomfortable in the night - sounds very much like what you are experiencing. We basically co-slept from her first wake up and still do but it has just gradually become less frequent that she wakes. I used to think when she’s … we’ll crack this and in the end just accepted it and it at least reduced the stress of hoping each night.

@LuluMum3 your response has given me hope. I know that probably wasn't your intention anf your just sharing your valuable experience, but to hear we are not alone and that we're not actually doing anything wrong is so reassuring so thank you (actually got a little emotional reading your response).

We are so used to hearing "try this try that, it's your fault, you've made a rod for your own back" , and these kind of comments are hugely unhelpful to struggling, sleep-deprived parents (even if sometimes it is what we need to hear, it just lacks a little understanding and empathy). This is something it sounds like you yourselves have struggled with too, and I'm so pleased for you that you've found a balance as a family where everyone can get some sleep.

I think one of the hardest things with all this is you just don't know what will work (or if) and when it will end.
@MaisieGreenYellow thank you for sharing your challenges also and for your reading suggestions- I will continue to look through this stuff and find something works for us and most importantly our DS.

We've tried the crying it out technique but this was traumatic for everyone and is not something that fits us as a family.

I do share some of your sentiments that he's become dependent on his late night bottle, something that now I have the summer off from work (teacher) I can focus my energy on dealing with.

Thank you to you all - this community can be so incredibly supportive of these challenges (more so than actual family and friends sometimes "well ours slept through, just let him cry blah blah") and I'm grateful for you sharing your experiences, and ultimately just reaching out to reassure us that we aren't alone, it does get better and it's OK to just try and do what's best for your DS.

P.s apologies all for any typos in my response....it's been a long day with teenagers 😂