Bedtime

[Catsarethebest85]

My baby (coming up 5 months old) simply won’t go to sleep at bedtime. When I put her down for a nap she falls asleep every time within 5 minutes by herself. But at bedtime she can take up to 3 hours to fall asleep. She’s not distressed, but wriggles around, lifts her legs, talks to herself and has recently started rolling. We have a consistent calming bedtime routine that has been in place since 8 weeks old and we wake her up at the same time every day. She gets around 3 hours nap time every day and we’re putting her down to sleep 1hr 45min - 2hrs after her last nap based on her sleepy cues. Always between 6.30 and 8pm.

I can’t work out for the life of me why she refuses to go to sleep. We thought maybe her bath (which is part of her bedtime routine) might be overstimulating so tried putting her down without it. She still wouldn’t sleep.

Has anyone experienced the same and if so what worked?

Hi

My boy is 3 1/2 now but I remember going through this phase with him!

I remember what helped with me was white noise and a pitch black room, if he wasn't crying or unsettled, wet or hungry and was just babbling and wriggling away I'd just put the white noise on make the room as dark as possible and leave him too it. I think after a week or so of doing this the time got shorter and shorter until it was the same time to fall asleep as at nap time.

Hope this helps

@Bec199923 Thank you for trying to help, but I forgot to say in my original post that she’s in a blacked out room with white noise as well! It’s a total mystery why she won’t sleep lol

Is 1hr45 between last nap and bedtime long enough? I'm trying to remember but I think I capped naps at 4pm for bedtime at 7 around that age. Maybe try capping naps a bit earlier?

I would also try to achieve a consistent time to go to bed every night as they will start to get used to it. Work back from whatever time you want to be bedtime , and cap the last nap accordingly.

Sounds like her last nap was too recent- I would just keep her up and put her down a bit later. Also if you leave her in the room will she get distressed or just happily roll around?

It's not a mystery at all. If it's taking three hours and in that time she's not distressed then she isn't tired. Under six months you shouldn't be putting her down to bed. She should be downstairs with you and you take her up when you go up (assuming you want to follow Lullaby Trust guidance on sudden infant death). There is no such thing as "bed time" at that age. You're enforcing an adult phenomenon on a baby!

@Cindy1802 I wondered this but with her naps during the day she always falls straight to sleep if I put her down after 1hr 45mins so I assumed she has short wake windows. I’ll try getting her naps to end earlier so she has a longer last wake window. However, she takes so long to fall asleep some nights that she’s been awake 5 hours since she woke from her nap so I’m assuming something is preventing her from falling asleep and she’s becoming overtired. I’ll keep trying!

@OnlyFoolsnMothers she rolls around and kicks her legs. She doesn’t get distressed but she isn’t the kind of baby who gets distressed anyway. She’s incredibly happy and calm pretty much all of the time so I guess the kicking and rolling might be her form of distress?

I keep my 6 month old downstairs with me and when she's tired she falls asleep and then I take her up when I go to bed. Why do you need to implement a bed time at such a young age? If you don't need to don't stress out about bedtimes now. I did the same with my first and it didn't make it harder to implement a bedtime when she got to one. She generally sleeps from 7:30pm sometimes a bit later.

There definitely can be such things as bedtimes at this age, ask my 5 month old!

OP, I think the last nap is probably the issue here and I'd try waking her a little earlier.

My own 5 month old wakes at 7 and naps at 9-10, 12-1 and then the last nap is more of a catnap from 3 for 35-45 minutes. Bath is at 6 which is when the bedtime/wind down routine begins and then bed at 7.

Good luck! It can take some experimenting with wake windows and nap times but we've found it's like magic when you crack it because it works so well.

She’s not distressed, but wriggles around, lifts her legs, talks to herself and has recently started rolling

Just leave her to it! It's her time to chat to herself and have a little stretch. Busy yourself with other tasks and let her drift off to sleep when she is ready. She sounds content to just chill in her cot.

@SouthLondonMum22 Thank you! Don’t worry I’ve ignored anyone who says she should be downstairs with me. Where’s she supposed to sleep? She won’t contact nap and is far too big for a Moses basket so the idea is unworkable and would result in getting a lot less sleep as she wouldn’t nap. I think you’re right and I’m going to try capping her last nap earlier and see what happens!

It's quite rude to say you've ignored people who've taken time to reply and provide advice simply because you don't like the advice. If there's nowhere for baby to sleep downstairs then you should go upstairs with baby. They shouldn't sleep alone due to increased risk of SIDS. But it sounds like you want to prioritise a baby free evening.

I'm comfortable with my risk assessment as I'm sure you are. Mine has slept in his own room since he was 3 months.

Hope the shorter nap works. Good luck!

@Sunsetred Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to reply to my post. Sounds like you’ve made a judgement about me based on a tiny bit of information you’ve read on the internet. You don’t know me, and to suggest that I am prioritising anything other than my baby tells people a lot more about you than it does me. I’ll continue trying my absolute damned hardest to ensure my baby gets enough sleep, watch her like a hawk on the baby monitor and try to cook and eat in the evening while she sleeps and you can continue to post comments that make hard-working, stressed out mums feel even worse. Have fun!

@Catsarethebest85 I was trying to be helpful by saying not to put pressure on yourself to be a perfect mother who's children are all in bed by 7pm. Let the baby chill downstairs with you if she's not wanting to sleep. Their sleep patterns constantly change until they stop napping altogether. So if it's not bedtime your struggling with it will be a nap time next. You'll make yourself exhausted trying to be a perfect mother and homemaker. However, you were rude and arrogant in your reply post by saying you were ignoring other people's (mothers) advice. You should also look up the reason why it's advised the baby should sleep with you. You watching the baby monitor like a hawk won't reduce the risk.

To be fair though, she wasn't asking about where her baby should sleep. It was unwanted advice and I'm sure we can all relate to feeling irritated about unwanted advice.

I also think it's unlikely that OP isn't aware of the recommendation or why it is recommended but like myself, it seems that she has made her risk assessment and has decided that the benefits outweigh the small risk.

Personally, my baby doesn't have a 7pm bedtime because I want to be the 'perfect parent', he has a bedtime and a routine because it maximises his sleep and works incredibly well for us. It does need adjusting as he grows but little tweaks to wake times etc usually sort any issue such as OP's.

Sounds like she’s not tired yet. Sleep is a biological function of the body, unless there’s a medical issue they’ll sleep when they need sleep, regardless of the light or the white noise or lack of (the evidence for the efficacy of white noise is inconclusive)

Also, you really should be in the same room as baby for all their sleep until at least 6 months. Watching on a monitor or not is meaningless because the protective factor is an adult breathing in the same room helping to regulate their breathing, you can’t breathe with them through a monitor. No shade, I get wanting that evening time to yourself but worth a mention as most people don’t seem to realise what the guidance is for. My 4 month old is sleeping on me downstairs tonight but I’m in bed with her most nights by 8 because I’m honestly I’m
knackered 😂

@BuffaloCauliflower - when you say you’re “in bed with her by 8pm”, do yuh mean literally in the same bed? No shade but some people don’t realise that co-sleeping is also against the guidance!’

@Poppy9876 yes I am in bed with her. Bedsharing is perfectly safe when following safe bedsharing guidance, and the NICE guidance was recently updated to include this and the requirement for midwives to discuss safe bedsharing with parents. The risk is unsafe sleep, not bedsharing in and of itself. 95% of infant deaths attributed to ‘bedsharing’ are actually related to easy to remove risks (like alcohol, unsafe bedding, or sharing sleep unintentionally on another n surface like a chair) same as the majority of cot deaths are related to removable risks. I’m well informed, thank you 🙂

@BuffaloCauliflower Ha, as I suspected! it’s funny how we selectively chose the guidance that suits us!! No shade, we all do what we can to get sleep jb those first sleep deprived months!! I’ve read that the evidence against cosleeping (as SIDS risk) is higher than the evidence around sleeping in the same room! Just bear that in mind when criticising others choices anonymously over mumsnet!!

@Poppy9876 there’s not ‘gotcha’ here, and I‘m not criticising anyone, simply sharing what the reasoning behind the guidance is as many people don’t know. Watching on a monitor isn’t the same as being in the same room, that’s all.

And deaths related to cosleeping are not SIDS. SIDS is a death with no known cause, accidental suffocation for example isn’t SIDS. Misuse of these terms confuses the data. With deaths attributed to ‘SIDS‘, 50% happen in cots and 50% happen in some sort of cosleeping situation, but when you break it down within this almost none are connected to planned, intentional bedsharing following safe bedsharing guidance. We advise people to follow safe cot sleeping guidance too, it’s no different. In both situations babies are safest following the guidance and there’s actually very little difference between outcomes of the two when following these.

As I said above, you’ve just selectively chosen data that backs up your own decision to co-sleep. The percentage of people who cosleep is significantly lower than those who put their babies into a cot, therefore 50% of a lower number, means the incidence of SIDS in cosleeping is statistically higher. Yes you can take all the precautions advised to minimise risk, but nonetheless, statistically the incidence of SIDS in cosleeping is higher. As I said, no judgment from me, we all do what we can to get by. When we take our children out in the car we are accepting a certain level of risk of accidents happening. Just wanted to point out that your reasoning is not factually correct. Over and out!