15 months awake at 4.30 every day

[Lelongducanal]

I know early waking is a common problem but feeling like there must be something we can do to shift it at least to 5.30…

15 months, still on two naps as he seems to need one in the morning (but then he has been awake for hours). BF but mostly night weaned - when he wakes I’ll feed him and put him down and he’ll often drop off but then jerk awake and scream when I leave the room… doesn’t fall asleep if we bring him into our bed, we generally end up bringing him in then one of us gets up at 5. I’m wondering whether to just stay in his room til 6 for a few days to try to reset things. His schedule is usually 45 min nap at 9.30ish and around 1-2 hours around 1.30/2ish. Then bedtime 4 hours after he woke from PM nap - 7.30ish usually. He falls asleep by himself in the cot, though sometimes one of us has to sit in the room with him, and will usually sleep through til 4.30. 9 hours a night seems really low and 4.30 is just an outrageous time for an adult to be awake 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

Any ideas v welcome. I don’t think it can be hunger because he still doesn’t fall asleep properly after a feed. Maybe we need to go to one nap but I can’t work out how when he’s awake so early!

Do you try to get him back to sleep at 4:30? Is it just a night waking?

Yes respond as we would to night wakings and he nearly drops off but then pops back up again, like he’s tied but not quite tired enough to stay asleep. I’ve been wondering about waking and resettling him at 3 to try to break the pattern…

Is he wet? How wet is his nappy?
do you use any white noise for sleeping?
do you have black out curtains?

id not be taking him into be as that’s getting used out of bed to him

i would try staying with him in a very dark room and waiting longer- but after changing nappy if wet

when putting to bed do you say night night baby name and tapp bottom etc, if so use these same signals that it’s night time

I think you need to drop the mornign nap. He’s waking at 4:30 because he’s doesn’t need to sleep much longer. Nap transitions are not fun! Agree it will be hard, but you could cut it down. Whenever I have done a nap transition, the nap I wanted to cut was done on the go - buggy or car and I’d make sure he only had 15 mins or so: When our journey came to an end he’d naturally wake up (or it would just be easier for me to wake him rather than put him in his cot and wake him after 15 mins which would be awful).

you’ll probably find that the motion of falling asleep, and the brain shutting down for a few minutes is enough to see him through to his longer lunchtime nap

I think his morning nap is too long.
My DS is 13 months old and does a 7:00 - 19:00 day with a 2 hour lunch nap from 12:30 - 14:30 ish.
If he's slept well at night he doesn't need a morning nap but if he's not slept well or he's woken up before 7:00 I put him down for a 10 min power nap/quiet time from 9:40 - 10:00 (takes him 10 mins to drop off to sleep and then the 10 mins of nap time).

Try shortening the morning nap to 15/20 mins for a week and see if that builds up the sleep pressure to keep him asleep for longer overnight.

Shortening a day time naps to much can produce more cortisone and then this can affect sleep at other times

Thanks so much everyone for your replies x
@Whichnumbers yes he’s wet but not terribly so and has never been that bothered by wetness. I worry that changing the nappy will just wake him up completely- and certainly make him v cross! But yeah I think maybe I need to just hang in there longer in his room and keep him there til 6, even if just to get him used to the idea of staying in bed til then.

He sleeps with white noise, black out blinds etc

@24HoursFromTulseHill @Nearlyamumoftwo yeah ok I think I need to play with morning nap. Hard to know with naps isn’t it - I keep trying to give him two good naps to prevent overtiredness but doesn’t seem to help so no harm trying a short morning nap for a few days to see if he sleeps a bit longer. When he’s at childminder he sleeps ridiculously well so might ask her to try it - he really resists cot naps at home so it’s either in my arms or in the buggy, so need to sort that too.

Less day time naps, black out blinds and white noise to stop any disruption from light or birds in the morning

Let your baba drop naps. Don't force it x

I'd personally just hold him once he's back asleep at 4:30 am to try and break the cycle, instead of putting him down. At that time he's probably tired enough to sleep but not be moved?

Once the cycle is broken then dropping the morning nap will be easier. We did the cutting it to 10 mins thing too.

Lelongducanal. It maybe the wetness is waking him, just like we can wake for a wee first thing. I’d be tempted to keep a hall light on and change the nappy quickly- easy access pj bottoms and then pop him back in the cot or hold him till 6pm and see if he drops off. Have you got a comfy chair in his room? ( switch of the land/hall light before settling him down with way. I’d favour settling him as you do first thing for sleeping - night night time and white noise but just placing a hand on him until his breathing changes - then staying in the room in the chair

Thanks all. This morning (4.20 arrghhhhh) tried feed then put down, shhh sleep time etc - he dropped off briefly then stood up crying after a couple of mins so tried to get him asleep on me, in the end he fed on and off for an hour until I got too uncomfortable and we got up, at which point he’d probably had about 9.5 hours. But this was after a day travelling yesterday so quite disrupted. The night before when he’d napped better he woke at 5.30 and dropped back off after a feed for another 15 minutes, with me lying beside the cot… Hope this phase ends soon, feel a bit walking dead today 🧟‍♀️

@Whichnumbers will try a nappy change this morning, nothing to lose! Makes sense that he may be uncomfortable.

The night before when he’d napped better he woke at 5.30

how much day time nap did he have and at what time? It’s worth trying to replicate that same pattern

So. Yesterday he woke at 4.50 and I fed, put down then lay on the floor by his cot - took half an hour of crying but he fell asleep for an hour til 6.30. Today he woke 4.30 and then cried/snoozed on and off til 5.45, even with me there/holding his hand. odd, like he drops off then comes to again and gets up crying. But definitely seemed tired, just unable to properly drop off, when I got fed up at 5.45 he fell asleep soundly on me 🤷‍♀️ Which makes me wonder if it is discomfort or some sort of separation anxiety. Still haven’t tried the nappy change idea but think I will tomorrow am. Feeling a bit broken 😞 (though am lucky he sleeps though til 4ish).

Are you capping his naps? Mine was still on two naps a day until 18 months and I found needed an hour morning and two in the afternoon in order to sleep well. They're all so different.

Maybe it is separation anxiety plus low melatonin.

Naps are really variable - last few days at childminder he’s done 30 mins AM and 1.5 hours PM. She wakes him around 3 so bedtime doesn’t go too late. Over the weekend it was more like an hour in the AM and PM. I wish there was an easy litmus test of whether they’re undertired
or overtired!