Me and the wife are starting to dissagree!!! Need advice - what should we do? 1st time parents.

[Tommysparents]

Hi everyone,

Baby Tomas is now 8 months old, and going thru the usual things at this age - starting to crawl better, flipping himself over etc and eating solids (since 5 1/2 months) - 3 solid meals a day, 3 bottles - 1 last thing at night (he goes to bed 7.30 - 8pm), a smaller one in the day and another 1st thing in the morning.

Here's the problem, he is waking in the night - maybe 3 times where he has flipped himself over on to his front, he won't settle himself, so one of us goes in, puts him on his back, and gives him his soother, he then goes back to sleep straight away for a few hours, then we do this again.

Anywhere between , 4.30 and 5.30 am he wakes and this time won't settle at all unless he has a bottle he just screams louder and louder - so we have been giving him one, he usually then goes back to sleep until about 7.30 - 8am.

My wife and I are in dissagreement over what we should do.

She thinks at his age (he weighs about 21 - 22 pounds) he should now be sleeping thru the night much better and not having a morning bottle till about 6.30 - 7am, and thinks we need to somehow aim for this target.

I think that there is not much we can do about the night wakings where he has flipped himself over and that this is just a stage he will go thru, I also think that he seems to need the early feed (he drinks a pretty full bottle) and we should just give it to him for a while longer.

As this is our 1st baby we are really confused, as well as very tired, so would LOVE to hear anyones advice or feelings on it.

i recommend this book

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it helps you understand sleep & gives you an approach - worked with my 3

Havent got much advice as havent had problems with dd sleeping (which Im so thankful for) but not all babies sleep through. My next door neighbours 3 year old ds wakes up twice a night as I can hear him as his bedroom is next to mine. Maybe try without the bottle and see how he is. I find trial and error is the way to find out what's best for your child. xxx

At this age dd was still getting a 10pm bottle, only dropped it to bedtime feed at 12mths, this enabled her to sleep thu without early am wakings! as for the sleeping, you could try a sleeping bag, it might keep him on his back, but as he's getting mobile probably not....he needs to learn to settle without that soother....(and I don't know what to do about that, as dd has always been a thumb girl!)

you won't want to hear this but our DS3 (dear son number 3 incase you wondered) only stopped waking for a 5:30am bottle about a month ago and he's nearly 15 months!

nothing I did would stop him waking for it and he'd only go back to sleep with it.

sorry!!

Mumsnet or Dadsnet?

Don't get that last message Cellulite but would like to say that Tommysparents is (are?) welcome to post if they want.

Have you considered giving him a bottle of water and seeing if he'll go that extra hour or two? Also I agree the sleeping bag seems a good idea because the turning over problem sounds like more of an issue to me.

def try only giving him water instead of a milk feed.. see how he takes that. I think you and your wife are right, babe ought to be able to go through without a feed (but perhaps not!) and its also a stage... the fliping over... my dd dit it... a sleeping bag didnt help, worse actually as got tangeled and cross. We got rid of night feeds around 8 months by my dh going to her and not me... but shes breastfed, and so when i didnt show, she realised there was no milk... took a few weeks and she was fine. She still wakes in the night btw... for one reason or other! good luck, try not to fall out, stick with it.... hope youre okay.

If you wanted to, you could try controlled crying. The system of going in and comforting and then leaving him for a while and then comforting again and then extending the time a little until you get the desired result.

I have used this on ds3 who is now nearly 1. It can take a while to get the desired result, but within a week you should have better sleeping patterns.

As to the early bottle - well I haven't cracked that one yet ds is still waking anything from 5.30am and I just hand him his bottle in bed and tuck him in. He drinks up and goes back to sleep. On a good day tho' he will sleep through until 7am.

There is no point in getting at each other about it, agree a tactic and then stick with it.

Good Luck

My ds2 (16mths) was recently getting into the habit of early waking (around 5am) having slept through to 6/7 for several months. My approach was to bf as I could do this while still half asleep, and then if day started at 5.30, not so far off a normal time. However, my dh recently suggested that I was being too soft and that he could take on a shushing/ignoring approach - and ds surprisingly meekly has gone along with this and goes back to sleep! I think it was just a habit that he enjoyed, coming into bed for a cuddle and a drink.

I believe I remember reading that 5am (ish) is a common time for babies to come into a light sleep. Also, it occurs to me that you don't say how long your ds screams for? Sometimes, I think babies need a battle of wills. A bit controversial, but he's not too young for controlled crying (ie, keep on going to see him at intervals, but only to shush/may sure he's not getting into difficulties)

Good luck with whatever you decide.

PS, another recommendation here for sleeping bag -seems to keep them slightly more immobile than sheets/blankets and yet at the same time allows for turning over while keeping warm.

Hi tommysdad. I don't think there;s much you can do about him turning over in his sleep. As you say, it's a phase which will pass.

With the morning bottle, our ds was like this and in the end we left him having it. He is now 3 and still has milk around 5am if he wakes up, but then goes straight back to sleep. That said, all we have to do is give him the cup now - actually having to hold a baby and feed is more tiring as you have to wake up properly yourself.

DD is 7 months and often also wakes around 5am. Like you, I'd kept going for a while with the bottle then as she drained 7 oz so I thought "Well, she must be really hungry". But I got tired of doing it, so I tried offering her a 50% mix (ie 7 oz water with 3.5 scoops). She drained it the first night, then not so interested the second. I put her in her cot and she did cry a bit but then just chattered for a while and eventually went back to sleep as well. I was amazed. Since then she has had no night time bottles, and is not even that bothered about breakfast in the mornnig, so I know now that she doesn't need any night feeds.

Just experiment with different things till you find what works, I'd say. Also I recommend the ferber book linked below

Hi tommysdad,

Just a quick querie. Is he going down in his cot awake in the evenings or is he already asleep? We had all this with our ds who will be 2 thins month. I was putting him down to bed asleep so when he awoke - naturally he wanted us back again. In the end we did a modified form of controlled crying where I sat in his room with him in the cot and didn't interact with him (except for a gentle "time to sleep"). Every 5 mins or so I laid him back down and eventually he got the message. The night wakings ceased after this.
As far as feeding early goes, in the main he should be able to go longer and may just have got himself into a habit of waking for this early feed. You could try being firm and refusing to give the bottle until a more decent hour. However, if you're like us the bottle will get given as quickly as possible so we could go back to sleep
Eventually, he'll be able to change his position more easily and won't need you to do this for him so there is light at the end of the tunnel there.
Once we sorted out all these bits with our ds he started sleeping all night (from about 10 months) and now sleeps from 6.30pm -7.00am most days. (How lucky are we)?

Mandy

don't mean to hijack the thread, !!, but how do you fit in afternoon milk, tea, and bedtime milk for baby to be sleep for 6.30pm??

He will be hungry in the early morning as he has got used to feeding at that time. To change this you could try weakening the bottle. I did this by reducing the formula by 1 ounce every three nights. By the time we'd got to 2oz of formula in 6oz water my ds lost interest in feeding and now doesn't feed until the morning. This way you will wean him off the nutrients his is receiving, as well as the habit of feeding, very gradually.

By the way, my dp and I had similar disagreements over this issue, but I felt that when ds reached 7 months and there was absolutely no sign of him dropping night feeds or sleeping longer than two or three hours at a time, that it was time to take action, so sorted out feeding first and then the sleeping.

do you have black-out curtains in his room? maybe something 'external' (street-light...?) is disturbing him and then he decides its time for breakfast?? Just a thought. Our ds started waking earlier and earlier at about this age - we (eventually) realised that the light was coming through the bathroom window into his room (opposite) and waking him, now we have blackout blinds in the bathroom! Got that sorted then it was onto the next thing!. Agree with giving water, rather than milk.

Or, the baby whisperer advocates a "dream feed". This is milk given before you go to bed at 10/11pm. Lift him out while asleep and give him a drink. Dont turn on the lights or talk to him, just gently lift him out and give him the bottle. Just a suggestion although we didnt do this because a)i was unconcious by 8pm every night and b) i always felt that there is something not right about disturbing a sleeping baby. (You know, if its not broke why fix it) We were and still are having horrendous problems with DS sleeping habits.Although this wasnt right for us, it may work for yourselves.
Best of luck to you.

sympathies!!! your son sounds awfully like mine
ds is 7mths now and knows the turn-on-tummy-and-can't-roll-back-trick way too well!!!
he drove me crazy the last 3 months but i does get better! i also used a sleeping bag - same difference! he still turns over. he just seems to settle a bit more nowadays and doesn't do it that often anymore. hope your's will outgrow it soon too. it is just so tireing to get up a few times during the night to turn them over :(

re early bottle: no recipe there me thinks. all babies are so different. but he should be able to go through 12-13 hours without feeding. maybe he's having a growth spurt?
water sounds good to me. or mine also settles when i go and stroke his face and dummy in.

and agreed: best you try to "understand" what suits your son and work together
maybe try 2 diff approaches for a while to see which works better? so no need for disagreement there