No idea how to improve sleep

[SunshineIndoors123]

I have a nearly 9 month old and sleep has become a bit of a problem, and I don't know how to fix it. He's currently rocked to sleep, then transferred into his cot. Usually between 6 and 7pm. He'll wake up twice in the night, awake anything from 20mins to 2 hours. We rock him back off (he usually has a feed in the night) then transfer back to the cot. Then he's up at 5. I've tried treating 5am as a night wake for months and he has never, ever slept longer as a result. I can sometimes rock him back to sleep at this time but as soon as he's in the cot, he's awake again.

He naps for 30ish mins between 9 and 10am. Then goes down again in the afternoon. I try to keep it 3hrs from waking up from his morning nap. Sometimes he naps for 20mins, sometimes a hour, rarely 2. He won't nap late afternoon anymore so he's so so tired by bed time, but I don't want to put him to bed any earlier than 6pm as he's up at 5am as it is.

I'm sure he's really over tired but I just don't know how to help him sleep better, or for longer. If we try to settle him in his cot instead of rocking him to sleep he just stands up and cries and screams and we're up for hours. We're all so tired. If anyone has any words of wisdom I'd really appreciate it.

Hi SunshineIndoors123

There are a few things I would look at:

• in terms of his daytime sleep I would look at appropriate to his age wake windows
• Self- settling is definitely a key to improving night and day time sleep and if you are ready I would definitely encourage that. As he is rocked to sleep it may look like putting him to cot instead of rocking is a too big step for him( it's hard for me to say as I dont know much about his personality). I'm a certified gentle child sleep consultant and would recommend gentle solutions that are kind, loving and responsive
• the very short naps are the result of overtiredness as well as not being able to self-settle and re-settle by himself. The poor lenght naps are having an impact on his night sleep too as it's all about the distribution of sleep within 24hours
• the 5am wake up is a result of being overtired and actually is the last piece of the puzzle that fall into place while the other bits are resolved

There are a lot of questions that I would ask you to get a clear picture however where I would start is

1. Gentle transition from rocking to self-settling-always start with bedtime then pick one nap to practice
2. Look at optimising day sleep- 20-30 minutes is not enough sleep per nap for his age so I would look at re-settling him at first
3. all of above requires a good plan of your response so you are clear what to do and consistency

In terms of re-settling and optimizing naps I have a complimentary guide for parents so if you would like a copy then I can send you the link to download. It's not a problem. Inside you find all about nap transitioning, 6- action steps to improve naps and support corner.

All the best,
Ewa x

Hi @ewaw1

Thanks for your reply. He used to nap every 2 hours, but as he has got older he seems to fight sleep at 2 hours but is ready for a sleep at 3 hours, which is why I said I try to put him down for his second nap 3 hours from the first wake up.

Yes, it definitely feels like too much of a leap for him to just be put in his cot to sleep as he is used to being rocked but I don't know how to make the transition...putting him down "drowsy but awake" doesn't seem to be possible because as soon as he realises he's been put down he's wide awake again...however there are times he wakes up and takes himself back off to sleep again, he just doesn't do this consistently.

Yes, I suspected the short naps and the 5am wake ups are a result of him being too tired. I can try to resettle him when he wakes after 20-30mins but he either doesn't go back to sleep, or if he does, he'll wake as soon as he's put back in his cot.

Thanks, I'd love to take a look at the guide

i would definitely recommend a gradual approach to self-settling. How does it look like will depend on many factors depending on your current set up, little one’s personality and your parenting style so cannot give you a clear answer how to start as I do a detailed assessment with the family. Every family may have the same sleep challenge but how they going to get there will be different for everyone as our children are unique. Hope that makes sense.
but
this guide can give you some help with the naps
www.familysleepwell.com/free-resources

Have a great day!
Ewa x

Sorry you're struggling! It's super typical for sleep to be rubbish around 7-10 months. Overtiredness I believe is overhyped and isn't actually as big of a problem as many sleep guides will make you believe. We NEED sleep pressure to be able to sleep, and the greater the pressure then the longer we sleep - usually. It only becomes a problem if being too tired causes a stress response, but just being tired on its own isn't a problem. Lyndsey Hookway talks about this on her IG.

20-30 minute naps when he's still on two naps are FINE! There's absolutely nothing wrong with cat naps. If he wakes up terribly upset then yeah maybe try to resettle but if he wakes after 20 minutes and is content and ready to play, then he didn't need a longer nap. Don't let anyone scare you into thinking that short naps are not restorative, they absolutely are. Also wake windows are not evidence based at all, they are just averages and every baby has different sleep needs. They can be used as a general rough guide, but don't get too hung up on the "appropriate" wake window. It's better to just follow your baby's lead (and far less stressful).

At your baby's age mine was taking around 1,5-2 hours of day sleep, total. Across one or two naps. He's lower sleep needs, and now that he's fully dropped to one nap (which he did at 10 months, started the transition at 8 months) he rarely naps longer than 1,5 hours.

If bedtime is a struggle because of the skipped afternoon nap when you suspect he still needs it, then doing that nap on the go is a great way to keep it a bit longer before he's fully ready to drop it. And this can just be a quick 10-15 min kip in the pushchair, baby carrier or car seat, just to take the edge off and get him to bedtime. But if he's consistently just not wanting the nap, then there are other things you can try to "distract" him - go outside, offer a snack, different game or activity, bath. Mine often gets a new surge of energy in the lead up to bedtime when we do something different, but if he's starting to get slightly tired AND is bored, that's a recipe for disaster. The solution then isn't to offer more sleep, but to avoid boredom.

@GinnyBee thanks for your reply.

I have heard a few times sleep is rubbish around 7-10months and it is about the only comfort- knowing this is normal. I think he/we slept more when he was a newborn.

He does tend to cry as soon as he wakes up, but I can't always tell if it is because he is still tired, or he's just letting me know he's awake. He was definitely tired this morning, because he fell asleep pretty much as soon as I picked him up...but then once he was settled and I put him back in the cot...immediately awake and wouldn't resettle. He tends to go 3-4 hours between naps. I try to keep it closer to 3, because I'm always worried about him getting overtired, but sometimes he fights it so we give up and then he goes down ok after another half hour or so.

His sleep has been so bad for so long I just assume he's over tired all the time at this point. He went down after his bath at 6 last night, no problem. Then he was up 8.30pm - 9.30pm crying, wouldn't settle on me or in the cot (I suspect teething was the culprit there) but then he was up again at 11.20pm - 11.40pm, needed settling, then awake 3.20am - 4am (had a feed) then up for the day at 5am. And every night is much the same. He must be so tired and I don't know how to get him sleeping better, or able to settle himself.

That’s only 3 wake ups though? That’s much better than what we had at that age 😂 or now tbf. It’s really tough though when they’re upset and need a lot of help to resettle. Mine went through this, I think teething and endless colds over the winter, every wake up was a battle. He’s much better now, the teeth are through and he’s not been unwell for a while, but he still wakes like 5-7 times for a quick cuddle and two feeds.

I’m really sorry to say this but this all sounds perfectly normal to me! All my kids weee still rocked or fed to sleep at this age. It will pass

Maybe I'm just not cut out for it then because I feel absolutely broken with tiredness. Good to know it is all normal though.

So I really don’t think overtiredness is the problem here. He’s sleeping just fine for his age, and if anything maybe he’s undertired and that’s why he has split nights and early mornings?

9-month old schedule

Amy wake before 6.30am - treat as night wake
from 6.30am - up and milk feed
8am - breakfast of porridge and blueberries
9.15-10am - nap. Goes down AWAKE in the cot with blackout blinds and white noise
11.30am - lunch including protein and big drink of water
12.15 - top up milk feed
12.30-2.30 nap from AWAKE in the cot with blackout blinds and white noise
3pm - milk and small snack
5pm supper
6pm bath
6.30pm stories and milk
6.45pm tooth brushing and lullabies
7pm asleep in cot from awake

@GinnyBee I always assumed over tiredness as he's awake as much as me over night, and I'm exhausted. Coupled with his short naps, it just seemed like that would be the cause, but happy to be wrong and consider a new perspective, thank you.

@LapinR0se thank you. This is largely the routine I aim for, but never quite seem to achieve it. It always falls down around the 12:30 nap, because he just never sleeps for anything like 2 hours. The best we had recently was an hour and a half but it is rare that happens. And I can sit and rock him to sleep again but he never settles back down in his cot, just immediately wakes up. If I put him in his cot awake he cries and stands up. The longest I've sat with him for whilst awake in his cot was half an hour, then I broke and picked him up because he was so upset, and he wasn't consoled at all by me being beside him shushing him/holding his hand/patting him, etc.

Going down “drowsy but awake” doesn’t work for many, maybe most, babies. Falling asleep independently without caregiver support isn’t really developmentally appropriate until much later, like after 3yo. Keep rocking and cuddling for as long as it’s working! If it stops working for you, then you can make changes but don’t think you need to do something else just because someone else says you need to change it.

As for how much sleep, at 9-12 months the recommended daily total sleep is 12-16 hours but anything between 10-18 is still considered normal, so there’s huge variation between individual babies. Based on what you’ve described and quick maths yours is still within the normal range. If he doesn’t have any signs of true sleep deprivation (difficulty focusing, lack of interest in things and activities, often cranky, behind on milestones and development) then he’s most likely fine, just struggling a bit with sleeping because of all the important baby stuff he’s got going on!

@GinnyBee I don't mind rocking and cuddling him to sleep at all, but recently he's been a bit more resistant to being put down in the cot. Usually, I rock him to sleep then put him down, but we've had a few times over the last few weeks where he wakes up as soon as he's put down and then we have to start all over again, and that has happened 2-3 times in a row, so we've been up for hours. So whilst I'm happy rocking him if it continues to work, I'm mindful of the fact he doesn't seem to always go down as well now, and the frequency of that increasing.

He doesn't really have any signs of the sleep deprivation you list, eg, being behind on milestones etc. He's cranky a fair bit which I do often put down to tiredness, but could also be teething, etc. And he's definitely had a bit of separation anxiety recently too.

I echo everything @ewaw1 says. A couple of things to add. Babies expect to wake up where they got put to sleep, so if they fall asleep in your arms, they'll expect to fall asleep in your arms. Think about if you went to bed in your bed and and woke up in the garden. We also sleep in sleep cycles and it can be hard to transition from one to the next if you are overtired. A standard sleep cycle is 20 minutes, which would explain the bursts of 20 mins. Have a look at cycadium rhythm (I've probably spelt that wrong).

I'm trying to understand the actual quantity of sleep he's getting. It sounds to me like approx 1.5 hours during the day and anywhere between 7-11 hours at night. So aporox 8.5-12.5 hours in a 24 hour period. Typically around 14 hours in 24 is better. While this amount of sleep might be normal for some babies, the fact that what you've previously been doing is no longer working and that his sleep is down, makes me feel that it's not normal for him.

I would 100% focus on the overtiredness as the issue and see what improvement you get. Start by keeping a sleep diary and make some notes about what does or doesn't work. It really helps to build a picture and by default you start to spot patterns. Darkness and white noise is a good start. Does he have a dummy? I was very against them with my first but introduced one for my second at 6mo as she really started struggling with sleep. It really helped. I also used a sling (which she hated at first) to get the initial sleep into her to break the cycle of overtiredness. Sleep feeds sleep but it's getting that initial burst in that's tricky.

You could try sleep training if you're ready, we found the gentle retreat the best. He can self settle so he has the ability, he just needs to learn how to do it consistently without you holding him. All children are different and will need different types of support to help them sleep. My first was self settling and sleeping through by 9wo, my second by 8mo and my third by 7mo. My second took a lot of hard work but even so it didn't cause her any distress because I gave her lots of support.