Good napper, terrible sleeper

[Zombiemam]

My son is 8 months and has never been a great nighttime sleeper but sleeps well in the day. I know there is a good sleeper in there because of how well and easily he will nap (the total opposite to my eldest). He currently naps in the pram because of the school run but has also naps in his cot when we are home and able to. He goes to bed around 6:30/7 and I am able to put him down drowsy, wait for him to settle himself then sneak off. He will then sleep until 10/11 have a feed and go back to sleep.

Between 12 and 6 however, he is then completely unpredictable. A good night looks like a feed around 2 and 6 then up for the day. Most nights involve several wake ups with one that can last several hours. Tonight for example he woke at 12 and is still awake now at 2:30. I don’t want to put it down to a sleep regression because honestly, it feels like there is one every month. I am just so exhausted, living for 4/5 hours sleep a night and would value some ideas or ways to get more consistent sleep for my whole family. TIA

My son was a similar. I was convinced that because he self settled and napped well it wasn't a case of sleep training. At 12m he'd become quite a split sleeper, with a long wake up every night. I got some advice from a sleep consultant and she advised we went down the controlled crying route. What I found was that actually by just not going in to him, he eventually just went back to sleep on his own. To my surprise he didn't cry. He was just awake quite a while. After a few nights he stopped waking. In hindsight I believe me going in and trying to get him to go back to sleep was inadvertently fuelling the wake up.

Thank you for replying @Reluctantadult i wondered the same, if I was being too quick to comfort. i have tried both leaving him to see what he does and some controlled crying and he gets himself in such a state. I tried going in every 5 minutes for half an hour. He was sick all over his teddies and dripping in sweat and we were both understandably really upset. a couple of times this week, he’s done really huge poops in the night so I wondered if he had tummy ache but other nights he’s just wide awake, full of beans. I am currently trying changing his nap schedule and changing bed times. I’m also keeping an eye on what he eats. Some nights have been more successful than others but I can’t really pinpoint the problem. He’s learning to walk and cruising using furniture. I remember my eldest going completely berserk around the same time. The difference being my eldest slept ok beforehand whereas my youngest just seems to love naps and hate night sleep which is exhausting for me as I can’t nap when I’m on the school run. I could try but I think it would be frowned upon!

I'm sorry you're having a tough time. Don't forget that if something doesn't work now, that doesn't mean it'll never work, you can try things again in a few months.

The sleep consultant was worth every penny here. Cheaper than divorce.

Day sleep affects night sleep so if a child is overtired or undertirrled with naps, then they won't sleep well at night. Alsp its the gap they havw in between the naps. Have a look into routines for an 8 month old. From what I recall, it's a wake at 7, half hour nap at 9.30-10.00. Lunch nap at 12.30-2.30 (make sure you wake by 3), then bed time at 6.30,7 (depending on how the naps were in the day). Good luck!

How much daytime sleep is he having? You can only achieve so much sleep in a 24hour period.

At 8 months I think DS was waking 7.30ish, nap 10-11, nap 2-3, bed 7.30-8pm ish.

He is 19 months now but too much day sleep has always been the cause of split nights for us.

He’s probably having too much daytime sleep as the others mentioned.
8 months old routine
7am wake and milk
8am breakfast
9.20-10 nap
11.30 lunch with plenty of water
12 milk
12.30-2.30 nap
2.30pm milk
5pm supper with plenty of water
6pm bath
6.30pm milk
7pm bed

As others have said, it’s ikely too much day time sleep meaning there isn’t enough sleep pressure at night. If you are going to try controlled crying again (which I would recommend), you must stick to it. It’s cruel and confusing to put him through it for a couple of nights, give up and then go back to normal and keep repeating.

Just echoing what others have said - one of the main causes of split nights is undertiredness from too much day sleep, not enough sleep pressure has been built up during the day. Could you gradually reduce his naps by 10-15 mins per day and see if this helps?

Hi @LapinR0se

Sorry to jump on here but do you have an example like this for a 7 month old? Naps are only 40 mins unless I go in and resettle!

Hi @ohbaby22 yes for 7 months old
6.30/7am wake and milk
8am breakfast
9.15-10am nap
11am lunch
12noon milk top up
12.15-2.45 nap
3pm milk
5pm supper
5.30pm bath
6.15pm milk
6.45pm bed

Thank you 💕

Thank you for all your responses. Too much sleep sounds like the issue but he’s not having any more total sleep than your suggested routines. A total of 2.5. The main difference I’d say is the wake time from the last nap to bedtime but I’d read that 8 month olds had a wake time or 2.5-3.5 hours? I’m not sure he’d last 2:30-7. He’s very ready for sleep by 7 with our current schedule.

wake + milk - 6
breakfast - 8
nap - 9:15 - 10:30 (1 hr 15)
Milk - 10:30
lunch - 12
milk - 2
nap - 2:15 - 3:30 (1 hr 15)
milk - 4:30
dinner - 5
bath - 6
bed - 7/7:30

i will try your suggested routine and see if we have any success.

To clarify, I haven’t tried controlled crying as such. I left him to cry one night for 5 minute bursts. I only did this because I was awake with him 11pm-4am and at the end of my patience. I’m not doing it on and off. I couldn’t be more consistent. This is what I find confusing as I feel like I’m ticking all the boxes and he still sleeps badly. Controlled crying is probably the last option, for me personally.

I'd cut the morning nap down so that he's always up by 10am. I think that it's affecting his wake up time as it is a decent length as it is.

Also have you tried milk straight before bed? He might be waking up hungry as currently eating a few hours before bed.

Don't do 5 minute bursts. You need to start at 1 minute, then 2, then 3 etc (but probably cap at 5). This is how they ease into it and know you are there. 5 minutes is too much for the initial time left alone. If you do the same time all the time, they then will know you will come back by that time, that's why you need to increase it. Personally I capped at 3 minutes. Then go in, cuddle, don't stay in the room for longer than a minute and leave again.

@Phoebo sorry, I did the 1/2/3/4/5 then stuck to 5 minutes burst. Ideally, I was looking for some other possible solutions before sleep training.

@mewkins yes he has his biggest bottle just before bed. It’s part of his bedtime routine so forget to mention. He also still has one around 11 and another around 2.

I’ll have a go at a shorter morning nap with a middle of the day nap as suggested by you and the others. My biggest worry was him being awake too long before bed but sounds like that could work. Thank you