Can anyone solve my sleep problems????????? sorry long!

[OLittleYurtofBethlehem]

Can anyone help with our multiple sleep problems?
I feel shy saying this cos i often have answers to other peoples sleep problems but cant solve my own!!!!!!! LOL grimly!

Ds 3 has decided daytime naps are no longer necessary - so as he cannot cope only on his nighttime sleep - he is permanantly tired/overtired and often miserable and screams and shouts at us, runs about aimlessly - which is really frustrating as when he isnt tired he is lovely. He was waking at 2/3am regularly but we have cured this with a nightlight (he was frightened of being in big bed) He does however regularly wake at 5:30am - for good

Whatever time he wakes he howls and shouts - WHich wakes up DH and I and dd who is 6 months

DD fights sleep and is a light sleeper and is basically permanently tired/overtired (i breed my children from a similar mould!!!!!!!) She will mostly sleep fairly easily (5-10 mins rocking in pushchair and then she goes to sleep on her own with her music toy playing and a DUMMY!)

If i put her to sleep in the cot she screams for ages and very often refuses to nap at all - which she also sometimes does even if i try the pushchair and dummy trick

I put her to sleep every evening in the cot - tonight without a dummy - has taken 3 hours plus for her to go to sleep. - I usually have to put her to bed a 5:30 before she is hungry for milk simply cos she is screaming with exhaustion - then i feed her an hour later (usually following an hour of screaming wiht me visiting)

When we go to bed she wakes up! (cot in our room) She isnt hungry then though so have to get her to go back to sleep - the solution to htis has been to transfer her to pushchair in lounge next door where with a dummy she usually goes to sleep within 10 mins - then she wakes at bang on 12:45am when i give her a bottle (had got this down to 1 ounce but last night she demanded 4!!!!) and wasnt very interested in breakfast milk! In the ,morning she wakes the second ds howls! -when i then try to soothe her back to sleep till 7:30ish

Its a nightmare cos between the two of them im often up every couple of hours - I need more sleep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also if dd falls asleep with the pushchair still - she wakes when i move it!!!
If dd sleeps in a moving pushchair she wakes when it stops
All sudden louds noises WAKE HER UP - and very often quiet noises too

PLEASE HELP ME!!!

So for anyone who hasnt the patience to read my first long message!
The key probs are

• How to persaude dd to sleep through ds early morning howls
• How to persaude her to allow us to go into the bedroom so we can go to bed
• How to resettle herself during night and daytime naps
• ditching the dummy
• ditching naps in pushchair
• allowing us to move the pushchair after she has fallen asleep

-allowing us to stop pushing the pushchair and her staying asleep

• helping ds to cope with being awake all day!

Thankyou to anyone with pearls of wisdom

OMG that is a long list - sorry

Nothing to say to help sadly, but I do want to know the answers as well. My DTs are not brilliant sleepers and I have just come through 2 weeks of no sleep at all. Am sending you sympathy hugs {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} as I know where you are coming from. Kisses

Oh poor you, I don't think any of this will be resolved over night but it can be done xx

Firstly get rid of that dummy, her light sleeping is probably a direct result of this. I think if you can get through a couple of rotten days without it things will definately improve. My ds2 had a dummy until about 8 months and was a really light/naff sleeper. Took it away and hey presto I started getting some ggod nights kip!!
With your ds what I would be inclined to do, would be to go downstairs with duvet when he wakes and cuddle up on sette, thus allowing dd to sleep a bit more and dh. This you should take in turns still keep lights off and low key, repeating that it is not time to get up and is not play time. Don't make it a battle as it will wake everyone!!
Also I would be inclined to put dd in her own room if possible, if she is a light sleeper it will be best for all of you! I know this goes against recommendtions but has always worked for me, as it allows babies to settle better without your instinct immediately kicking in if they so much as sniff!!

Hope this is of some help, you can do it babe it just might take a bit of time. Sending you lots of love and get some sleep xxxxx

thanks smashingpumpkin - your ideas are good - what i have been doing is climbing into bed with ds early morning if necessary - but dont want to make this a habit

we cant move dd into own room as we only have two bedrooms and a lounge in out flat - dont think dd and ds will tolerate each others noise if put in together

This evening i put dd in cot at 5:15pm she fell asleep at 8:20pm woke again at 8:50! offered to feed her - think she drank a few ounces of bfmilk - so maybe she was hungry. She is still wailing now though :( dont really know what to do. Especially as when we go to bed soon im confident she will wake up :(

Really want to ditch dummy as i know it will help once we have suffered several very noisy days but will i have the patience and courage to survive - right now my head is spinning - dont really fancy a night of dh and i sleeping on mats on lounge floor :( but equally dont want to try to sleep in bed with her in cot at the end moaning to herself

What should i do? :(

Oh I do feel for you it is so hard, but don't worry too much about things becoming a habit, do what you have to to get through. If you climb into bed with ds and he remains sleepy and calm it will eventually reach a point where he doesn't need you to anymore he jst won't wake.
As for dd what i would do with dd is not put her down so early, so you need to establish some sort of routine during the day which means she is awake between say 4 and 7, which gives her planty of time to wear herself out before bed time. At the mo it seems to all be merging into one and at 8 she is ready to get up again and not getting into a deep sleep. At 6 months I did this with mine
Wake 7.... breakfast b/f, morning nap , awake time 11- 2, then pm nap 2- 4, evening a little bit of tea and more b/f, bath cuddles etc and b/f at 7 then bed, no dummy !! I'm not saying don't b/f at any other times but she needs clear distinction between evening and bed IYKWIM. She IS ABLE to sleep more soundly you just need to help her a bit xxx
If all else fails the follow your instincts and do whatever you have to sometimes we all need a bit of routine thoughas horrid as it might seem, it may just help settle things a bit. Do what you have to tonight and then start a fresh tomorrow new day, new approach, open mind and just see how it goess.
Ireall hope this helps babe, try not to let it get to you too much xx

Smashingpumkin you are so right with the new day new start advice - i have been trying to do that.

What she really needs is more sleep during the day and at night so that she isnt screaming her head off at 5pm :(

BTW when she woke again at 8:50pm she was screaming exhausted certainly not happy - She finally went to sleep when i gave her a dummy (45 mins of screaming)

And i know she will wake up when we go to bed :(

Does she wake up wide awake?? Or does she settle back down with some milk??

5 pm is a yucky time for most babies and young kids the trick, I think is not to let them sleep, as much as it would help tired mumy and getting tea for everyone else! The dummy is what i believe causing her to wake as she is reliant on it to re settle, I strongly recommend getting rid of it. From my experience it really does work wonders xx

My ds still has a dummy to sleep with at three and sleeps beautifully. He was a terrible baby sleeper but it wasn't the dummy keeping him awake. I would try to insist on a daytime nap - offer a bribe - a sweet to stay in bed until you come back, give him some milk, tuck him up in bed, cuddle and bribe. Otherwise put him to bed earlier - maybe 7pm if you've been putting him to bed at 8pm - so he has the opportunity to get more sleep. I really do think your dd needs her own space as you are waking her up, but I completely see that this is a problem. What do you hope to do long term re the lack of space? Have you got a routine for naps with her so you can try to get her to a later bedtime after her milk? Have you tried putting her down two hours after she wakes whatever time that is? That's how I finally got a bit of routine going for ds (the sleeper from hell) and it really helped. Once that nap was established, I could start putting him down after lunch and then things did improve a lot during the day. Have you talked to ds (during the day) about what you expect from him at night (which IMO includes 5.30am) - ie to sleep quietly and if he wakes up to cuddle his toys and go back to sleep without shouting? Would he respond to a star chart? Or being told he can read his books but he musn't shout or scream?

OMG i just deleted my message - will post update tommorrow!!!!!!!!!!! DH is wanting to surf :o

Hope all is okay with you guys and you are getting some sleep. Sending you lots of positive sleepy vibes xx Keep us posted x

Hi - just wanted to send some more of those drowsy vibes (to the kids, not you!!)
I think the children would get used to each other's noise pretty quickly if they are in together. I know it's daunting :)
Our 2 eldest, 20 mth gap, have always shared a room - first in a flat with thin walls (so v aware of neighbours waking up if they shouted :()

But it only took a week or so, then dd1 would just turn over & not even wake up properly if ds cried at night. Can't remember exactly, but I think we moved them in together when ds was 6mths, as I got so fed up treading on eggshells in our bedroom to keep him asleep.

Thinking of moving dd2 in with them now, as she is 8mths, and I want our room back!

with ds in the daytime, maybe try to enforce 'quiet time'on his own - cuddled up on sofa with duvet & books or in his room, where he has to rest. He may fall asleep if he's not being put down for a formal nap?

good luck :)

am thinking about putting them both in the same room as i too want our bedroom back - but atm she is ready for sleep ages before him - hes in bed at 7 every night so cant really put him down earlier - pretty sure he would wake earlier - he slept well last night, didnt wake till 7:45 and was foul all day :o Oh happy days of parenting

Also what would i do when she needed her daytime nap - DS would be appalled if i contain him in the lounge for 2plus hours every day - so would I (havent got room for a sofa :( )

DD has had moments of marvellousness - first typed this last night and then lost it! (so will try again!) She has now had several daytime naps of 2hours in the pushchair - not a long term solution but a nice change from the usual screaming!!!!!

Have largely given up on ditching the dummy (really want to though) because: for two nights now i have put her to bed after a feed at about 6 she screams and finally falls asleep -an hour later maybe then wakes at 8ish screaming and hungry i think - she then will scream and make a fuss about going back to sleep again - i loose willpower and give her the dummy!!!!

She also allowed us to go to bed on tuesday night without waking up-(due to us being noisy during her daytime naps i think) hurrah - she still ended up in the pushchair later on in the night though - just cant bear ages of wailing at 2am

am thinking about giving her a bedtime bottle of milk to encourage her to sleep all night (and so i can be sure she isnt hungry) but am really not keen as i like BF and it seems to be going so well other than the fact i get no sleep.

How can i maintain BF and still get her to sleep all night? she went all night without milk at 8 weeks so no reason why she cant now!!!!!!!!!!

having ds in bed at 7 is pretty good going, so yes, don't mess with that!

but depending on bedtime routine in your house, she could go to bed in their bedromm(doesn't 'their' sound good?? :)) then you could do story or whatever for ds out in the lounge, or in your bed. Then he would have to be encouraged to creep into bed super quietly - my older 2 are pretty good at 'not waking the baby' - plus I just ignore her if she does stir with their noise, and she soon drops off again.

Daytime nap: How about putting her in your room? A different place may be good for her, as she can then associate the cot with that one long night time sleep. In your bed if she's not moving yet, or do you have a travel cot you could put up in your room?
hth!

The drama continues!

Last night dd woke at 2:45 and settled after 2 1/2 ounces of formula (tonight hopefully 2!) At 3:30am ds woke screaming very loudly - completely refused to settle in bed - insisting he wanted to lie on the floor. After 20 mins of trying and failing to calm him down we decided to leave him to it with the night light on - and control cry and HOPE - HE DID NOT GO BACK TO SLEEP :( Not for one minute

The wonderful thing about this dismal tale of no sleep is that dd slept through the whole drama - even though ds howled on and off for 3 hours!!!!!!!!!

:( :)

I so feel for you, but sorry cannot help, as I have just posted a message about my 7mths dd. Parenting eh, when pregnant we dream about it and now we would murder for a night of sleep. I swore no more children! :o You have my admiration for being able to cope with two! One thing that made me feel better was a message I read earlier (cannot remember from whom)about 14 years old hating our guts and how glad we would be for them to "cry" for help. Ah, I started to write with the intention to at least cheer u up but I think it went all wrong, haha. May be next time. MY dd is asleep for past 45min, wonderful, but I am so overtired that cannot fall asleep. Anyways, back to you, from what I have read, your DS seemed to be doing really well, so don;t dispare, maybe he just had a bad dream or one off prob last night. Fingers crossed . I too would like to get rid of the dummy, wondering whether that could be the problem, but the dummy seems to help to send her off. And as you say, unfortunatelly, sleeping problems are so difficult to resolve when you are sleep deprived and lack the energy==>will power. But never mind, they will soon be getting married, LOL, and we will moan then as the flat with 2 bedr in your case will be too big for you two.....Ta for tonight, hope and pray that we both get some good night sleep.