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Sleep

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Original poster

Evening boobaholic -is dad the answer?

18 replies

NoviceKnitter · 11/02/2008 11:30

I've posted before about DD (8 months) who has always cluster fed in the evenings and been unable to self-settle in terms of sleep. I've got a new idea and would love to hear if anyone has experience of similar, or a better idea...

Background is (and I did post quite recently so those that know skip to final para!), she quite quickly fell into a seven thirty till seven thirty night but always semi-woke frequently during the evenings. For the first six months kept DD in living room with us in the evenings as she woke frequently to feed. At first she was on our laps then into moses. We then all went to bed together (we co-sleep) and she slept through with one and sometimes two feeds. All was well...

When she turned six months or thereabouts we realised the evening system wasn't working so well as she was too alert and easily distracted - we felt that she needed proper peace and quiet and we needed to reclaim our evenings. So we started putting her down (still being fed to sleep) in the bedroom. A few months ago this wouldn't have been possible at all so there is progress. However, she's still waking very frequently - an hour is very very good, on a bad night it's every twenty minutes or less. (When I say waking, she stirs, starts to grizzle in her sleep then wakes herself up as her crying accelerates to full on red faced screaming.)

Apart from the fact that I'm not getting any time to rest/do stuff/see DP, I now feel that DD is trapped in a pattern that she herself doesn't like. She's clearly desperate to sleep (she doesn't open her eyes during her frustrated crying fits and crashes out quickly with a boob top up so I don't think it's about feeding any more tho foundations maybe in her cluster feeding needs) So, where I was going with and very happy with a kind of fourth trimester philosophy at first, she is now 8 months and I feel it probably is the time to teach her how to sleep properly. But how? (I should add that she's teething which makes things worse.. but she'll be doing that for another two years...)

So to the latest plan. I was reading on another thread (I think by someone who was trying to cut night waking) that the thing that worked was when she handed over the nightshift to her mum for three nights. I'm wondering about leaving her with DP. The reason I think this might work is that she's started crying to the point of full on screaming when I take her for a walk in the buggy, while she'll let him take her and happily sleep in it.

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Original poster

NoviceKnitter · 11/02/2008 11:42

PS Forgot to say obviously I'd tool him up with expressed milk...

OP posts:

Siane · 12/02/2008 11:01

Controlled crying. Sorry - know it's probaby not the answer you want but we did with our 5 month old 2 years ago and it worked in 3 nights. She's very happy and hasn't not slept through a night since, other than during illness. It works - honest.

Bodkin · 12/02/2008 11:28

I agree that might be the way to go. I think babies do find themselves with feeding patterns thay they have in fact grown out of. I was feeding DD2 in the night when she woke (usually only once, sometimes twice) but have found that it wasn't settling her (windy, hiccups) and then she was waking very early but not really wanting milk in the mornings. So the last few nights I've not fed her, and she has been sleeping through until 7am and MUCH happier in the day.

I think give it a go, what have you got to lose if the current situatiion is not making her happy?

policywonk · 12/02/2008 11:33

I ithk controlled crying is a bit full-on for babies under a year (but then I'm not a fan of it, full stop).

Is it possible that your daughter might be teething? I remember DS2 going through a phase of very disturbed sleep like this. I finally dosed him up with Calpol and things got much better - and then some molars appeared a couple of weeks later.

You could also try getting her used to the idea that she doesn't have to feed to sleep - send DP in to settle her sometimes instead of you.

I do understand how frustrating it is, I remember going a bit spare about it myself. But in the scheme of things she is still vey little, and still needs quite a lot of comfort. In a year's time this will all be a distant memory.

EffiePerine · 12/02/2008 11:36

Def worth a try. It might not work (DS was awful at 8 months, you have my sympathy) but at least it will give you a break and if it does work, fab. I wouldn't do CC at this age either, but it worked well with DS when he was older (15 mo). He's gone from waking 2 hourly to sleeping through, so there is light at the end of the tunnel...

peneloperabbit · 12/02/2008 14:05

How are her daytime naps? I found once daytime naps were sorted, night time sleeping got a lot better. We were experiencing similar patterns at night and I think it was due to ds being too sleepy to have a good bed time feed. He would have a little bit, then nod off, then wake up for a little bit etc.

Catkin08 · 12/02/2008 14:11

Think handing over to your DH is a great idea. I've just had to do exactly the same with DS who is 8 months as he settles fine for DH but screams his head off if it's me that puts him to bed.
He's only just started to do this and I get the feeling it's all part of separation anxiety.
He's formula fed now so it's not exactly the same as your situation but I would definitely recommend giving it a go!!
Good Luck!

Original poster

NoviceKnitter · 12/02/2008 16:15

Thanks so much for replies.

re controlled crying - I'm certainly closer than ever before - but it just wouldn't be fair - she'd be going from one extreme to the other. Part of the problem I think is that we co-sleep and the bed hasn't grown as she has - so now we're quite crammed and she's right up against me in an all night cuddle. This weekend I'm going to get a bigger bed as even tho we plan for her to move into her cot pretty soon (somehow) we're always going to need room for children now and again - and immediately perhaps a bit more physical separation int he bed at night would help. At the moment I can't even go to the loo in the night!

re teething -she's just cut her first two teeth so yes the recent worsening of sleep has been related I think - but I thought that would calm down now they're through the gum. Could she have more on their way already???

Her daytime naps are regular but not independent. Morning and lunch are in car or sling - afternoon is on my lap or with me in bed.

She's definitely suffering alot from separation anxiety at the moment but from what I understand that doesn't go now for ages - does it?

Seriously thinking of getting a sleep doctor in!

Catkin good to know the dad thing is working for you. DP has some time off soon so think we'll give it a go then.

OP posts:

policywonk · 12/02/2008 16:35

Get a superking! Really. We've been co-sleeping with at least one and sometimes two children for the last five years, and having a superking has made it sooooo much easier.

mumdebump · 12/02/2008 16:48

We had similar with our DD. She was waking for quick snacks of booby milk up to 7 times in a night. 2 nights of tough love and 'controlled crying' (aka purple with hysterical rage screaming when either self or DH appeared but no booby milk produced) had it cracked. She now sleeps through from 7pm to 7am.

cmotdibbler · 12/02/2008 16:55

The No Cry Sleep solution is really helpful, and sensitive to cosleeping, bfing families.
It really worked for us, and was atraumatic, but did take longer than a couple of nights. To us, that time was worth it.

Original poster

NoviceKnitter · 12/02/2008 17:27

mumdebump how old was your dd?

cmot we've just bought that. how long did it take you?

PW I'll get a super duper king if they exist!!

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cmotdibbler · 12/02/2008 19:38

It took 4 weeks to go from feeding to sleep, would scream if you tried otherwise, to totally self settling to go to bed at 7. That in itself cut down night feeds, but didn't drop them entirely until 18 months - that took DH with a bottle of EBM going in, offering it to him, and DS deciding that he'd rather go back to sleep.
DS is now a totally bomb proof sleeper - you can take him anywhere and do anything and he'll still go to sleep and stay there.

mumdebump · 12/02/2008 19:47

6 1/2 months I think when we tried it (She's now 8 1/2 months). She was being weaned onto solids and taking 4-5 milk feeds a day so the health visitor was satisfied that she didn't need the night feeds nutritionally but rather for comfort and settling.

There is also a brilliant book from the Millpond Sleep Clinic about solving children's sleep problems.

Original poster

NoviceKnitter · 12/02/2008 22:11

Interesting. See (and I'm going round in circles here) I think part of hte problem is DD won't take 4-5 full milk feeds during the day so I think part of it is genuine cluster feeding. I"m wondering if by offering EBM or even water I can push them into the day, or if it's too late for that now...

OP posts:

CoteDAzur · 12/02/2008 22:44

Give her paracetamol one night and see if that changes anything. It is possible that she might be teething.

hoxtonchick · 12/02/2008 22:48

i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but dd is 2.7 & co-sleeps (in our super king bed ). she too prefers to be cuddled right up against me & i can't go to the loo alone. maybe i should have been tougher when she was smaller, but i don't have it in me. ds co-slept 'til he was 3.5 & dd came along, but i'm not having another baby.... interestingly, we have left her for the odd night with my parents & she's quite happy to sleep with my mum - maybe we smell the same.

mumdebump · 13/02/2008 14:35

Novice Knitter, maybe DD will take longer feeds in the day when she doesn't get as much in the night. When we stopped feeding DD in the night, she definitely took fuller feeds in the day, which then made her less likely to wake in the following night feeling hungry or even just a bit peckish. It is possible to stop a viscious cycle and turn it into a virtuous one. For us it was a case of going cold turkey on the night feeds before a set time (say 4am). We did have DD in a separate room though - not sure how we'd have coped with a screaming baby in the bed with us. As i said earlier, 2 nights of hell, followed by 3rd night of well-deserved sleep all round.

Really hope you find a solution that works for you.

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