2 year old naps vs bedtime and nursery

[LGBirmingham]

I'm not sure if anyone will really have the answer to this, but if you do it would be very welcome. I just need to write it down I think as my dh and dm are sick of me talking about it!

Ds is generally an ok sleeper, naps easily, will sleep a good stretch at night waking once around 5 and going back to sleep or sleeping all the way through. However since he has turned two he's just a nightmare to get to sleep at night. I think he's probably going to drop the nap this year at some point but at the moment he's obviously in the awkward in between stage.

A typical day at home would be:-
Wake somewhere between 6-7,
Nap starting somewhere between 12 and 1 and finishing by 2 latest.
Asleep for the night at 8 roughly (when he was younger he was asleep by 7 but it's crept later as he's got older)

At home I will cap his nap so he doesn't sleep longer than an hour and a half or passed 2 in the afternoon (whichever happens first). Sometimes he's fine being woken and sometimes he's upset but calms down after some cuddles and tv and is fine after a little bit

At nursery they don't start getting them to nap until 1 because of their routine which can be very late for him if he was up early. I've asked them to not let him sleep longer than an hour. They keep reporting he's been really upset or difficult to wake up and crying loads. When they have managed to get him up he can be quite tantrumy in the evening and bed time can be like torture but he goes to sleep relatively quickly but it isn't enjoyable.

Some occasions they've let him sleep til 2:30 or later and he just won't go to sleep until 8:45/9 and then he can want to sleep in longer and be really upset when we have to get him up in the morning at 7, or wake at 6 but not be ready to get up but actually having his night waking at that time and we just have to force him up because there isn't enough time to go back to sleep again before we all need to be up for work/nursery. They then report back to us at nursery that he's been very emotional in the morning.

Yesterday they said they couldn't get him up and he was upset so they let him go back to sleep until about 2:20. They suggested I tried to put him to bed for his normal time just to see if he settled better. He took about half an hour to fall asleep so was out for 8:30 but was very calm throughout and bed time was at least enjoyable albeit very long.

Today they managed to get him up by 2.10 but they said he cried so much he was waking others up. This evening he was just a pain going to sleep, writhing about fighting sleep, trying to get me to do specific things then wingeing about it. But he was asleep much quicker, took about 15 mins and was out by 8:10.

I obviously don't want him getting so upset at nursery but equally if they just let him sleep he'd probably sleep until close to three and be up until nine. I struggle to parent by that time and he equally doesn't get enough sleep at night because he has to be woken in the mornings and he's upset about it.

I just don't know what to do the solution is? There perhaps isn't one other than waiting until he doesn't need to nap but has anyone else experienced this?

I’d be expecting your nursery to follow his routine and let him start his nap at 12/ 12.30!! I’d be really annoyed by this.

Do you think I can demand that? I did suggest via the app this morning that they should try and get him asleep for 12:30 but they said have their lunch at 12 so he's still eating at 12:30. When he was in the two previous rooms they had it at 11:30 which worked out better.

I think either get them to change the nap or let his bedtime go later.. Even if you have to wake him then he can get a longer nap to make up for it..
I don't see the harm in a later bedtime if it fits the routine best.. I was letting mine stay up until 9 during the summer we were having so much fun outside!
You could also try stick to the nursery's routine at the weekend if they won't change nap, put him to bed later and he might catch up on sleep Sat and Sun morning if needs be..
I find if you let them they'll regulate their own sleep really well but need to be given the chance to wake up of their own accord as much as possible..

@Rowen32 yes I'm wondering if we should just let bed time go later too. I think we can get away with 8:30 and the morning still being OK.

Nursery will be on tricky ground waking them. Ofsted got involved with a nursery that didn't let children sleep when they wanted a few years ago, and ruled that the children's needs come before the parents wishes. It's a basic human right to leave a person to sleep if they are tired.
Having said that, they should also be putting them to bed earlier if this is their routine and they are tired at that time.

I think it's quite unusual for nursery to have lunch at 12. Ours does 11:30 lunch so they're all done by 12/12:30 ready for sleep. They aim to lie the children down for their sleep by 12:15

Agreed. Who wants their 2-3 year old napping for ages when their nap started at 1!?

As I said earlier they did lunch at 11:30 in the previous rooms. I guess it's something to do with practicalities for the chef?

To add to the confusion. Yesterday he started the day at 7 and we went to a trampoline park and he napped at 12:40 which was earlier than expected. I woke him at 2 and he was fine. He then wouldn't sleep at bedtime until 8:30, woke in the night at 3:30 (unusual) and started his day at 6am. Not much sleep at night at all

Is this signs of the nap needing to go? He's certainly sleeping less, but he seems to be shortening his night rather than the nap.

You are in the heinous final nap transition. It is particularly awful when nursery is involved.

You will have to accept a later bedtime on nursery days. They won’t put him down before 1 and they struggle to wake him up. You will have to wait until he refuses to nap at nursery which could be another year.

On non-nursery days cap the nap at 40-45 mins and do a normal bedtime. At least that way he will catch up with sleep. Eventually you can drop the nap all together on non-nursery days and give him a lovely early bedtime and a huge night sleep.

Thanks Lapin I really needed a practical response like this. I think you are right there is little I can do about the nursery situation. It fills me with dread that this might be going on for another year though 😱I imagine he'll be going to bed at 10 by that time.

You're right though I can at least do a drastically shorter nap at home and put him to bed at normal time then.

@LapinR0se how long do you think it might be before he can drop the nap on non-nursery days? He's nearly 26 months. We had to start capping his nap and doing an 8pm bedtime when he was 18 months.

Signs he is ready to drop the nap:

• takes up to 30 mins to fall asleep for the nap
• takes an hour to fall asleep at bedtime

Even when he does drop the nap, you normally need a couple of naps a week to avoid over-tiredness.