gina ford-starting at 8 months

[inga]

Hi there. I started the Gina Ford routine for my 8 month old two weeks ago. I am a bit confused and need clarification on a few things and can't afford the £60 personal consultation fee!!!
He is still waking at 0230 am for a feed and according to GF I should start giving him sugared water instead. Has anyone tried this and is it true that they don't develop a sweet tooth because you eventually switch to plain boiled water? Maybe I'm just cynical....??? How long does this take and will I eventually need to let him cry it out anyway and if so, is there any point in going through the whole sugared water thing instead of letting him just cry it out? Or should I just wait and see if he sleeps through soon anyway. He has managed to make it to 0415am and 0545am without waking for a feed, but only twice since starting.
Also, he is still crying and sometimes thrashing when I put him dowm for his 0900am and 0100pm naps as he will not be "settled" - is this OK in the GF way? This is the second week of crying it out. He no longer wakes at 9pm and 1130pm which he got into a habit of doing.
Sorry this is so long-winded but I've really gotten myself into a muddle and trying to avoid any further muddling!!! I'll probably think of something else to ask in a minute anyway...

Inga, there is quite a lot of stuff on sleeping in some of the old threads (and lots of pro- and anti-GF stuff if you didn't notice!). Also a few real experts on GF (which I am not). Why not try a bottle of diluted EBM if you don't like the idea of sugared water? You could gradually water down the EBM and then drop it altogether. Have to admit, I did CC at 6.5mths (successively dropped the 3am, 5am and then 11pm feeds over about two weeks) and didn't offer anything - just cuddles (dads are good for this).

Re second question, does your DS actually go to sleep at the 9am and 1pm naps, or just cry? Some babies need to have a wee cry when they go down.

Not a gina person but did decide enough was enough at 8months. Personally, I don't believe a baby needs night feeds by 8months, have you tried just going in to cuddle, reassure etc but not feed. I got my son off night feeds before I did cc (a Ferber suggestion) and when it came to cc it was so easy - just 20mins and not screaming either. babies are born with a sweet tooth - it's an evolutionary thing to ensure they get enough calories (breast milk is very sweet) so you can't give them a sweet tooth as such IMO so it might be worth giving it a go. However, I found it easier to cut out night feeds by cuddling instead so when he stopped expecting food at night, it was easier for him to go through with minimal crying. he sounds really nearly ready to go through, so cut out the night feeds and I think you'll find cc really easy and relatively painless.

Yes, Florenceuk, he does sleep. In fact, yesterday I went in to him after 10 mins to pacify him and he slept an extra 10 minutes instead of cried - first time he has slept for longer than 30 minutes during the day-so obviously pacifying works for him!
I might try the cuddles. Unfortunately Dad has more of a problem with the night-time wakes than I do so his help cannot be relied on!!!

Thanks Aloha. I think cuddling might be the answer. He is very alert and ready to be fed at 0230am though so I am a little nervous.
But I definitely think he is ready to sleep through. The night-time feed is now also reducing his breakfast appetite which isn't good.
Thanks for the advice.

Good luck - I think that sometimes you anticipate more problems that you end up having. I was very worried about cc but when I did it at 8months it really wasn't so bad. The important thing for us was to go in, cuddle, reassure then leave until he stopped expecting food at night, after that the rest fell into place. He started sleeping 12hours straight soon after and still does (fingers crossed!).

Inga - sugar water is not recommended by GF for night time wakings. It is a very specific remedy to be used when the baby has "colic" in the early days. By 8 months the night-time waking is probably jsut haboit, so if he is getting enough food during the day this feed can be cut out and you could try cc. Or just try cooled boiled water if you feel he needs to suck

Good luck

Hi Inga,

Sorry you're having a bad time, its times like this that I absolutely hate being a mother. Anyway enough about me. I am not an expert but have been using the GF method from about 4 months. It worked for Hassan v quickly because I think he was starved from breastmilk!! In your case, I think it may take longer to establish a GF routine in a baby of eight months. So please don't get stressed because it must be a massive transistion for a baby.

The night time problems may be happening as a result of the day time feeding. If your baby is not eating enough solids, or drinking too much milk during the day (at the wrong times) he may be genuinely hungry at night. How much does he drink at 2.30am? If it is more than 5/6 ozs then he may really be hungery.

The routine should be something like this. Give milk at waking (6-7am)then breakfast should be between 7.30am and 8.00am no later otherwise affects lunchtime appetite. Try ABSOLUTLEY no snacks until lunch apart from some juice/water at 10insh. Lunchtime about 11.30 to 12.15. When he wakes up from midday sleep offer milk. Don't feed after 3.15pm and don't let him sleep past 2.45ins. Tea at 4.30pm to 5.15pm. then milk at bedtime. I know it is bind but be over regimented about this and the method actually gets babies hungry and ready for food.

If you follow the food plan properly you will know he is defintely not hungry when he is sleeping.

In terms of the morning nap and mid day nap. Look on page 139, between 6 and nine months some babies unfortunately start to drop their morning nap. To make sure, it isn't that, check what time he is actually waking up. For the morning nap to work you need to make sure he is up before 7.00am. That gives you atleast 2hrs thiry minutes to tire him out before 9.30 nap but if you let him sleep longer then the routine will naturally move forward affecting the whole day. If he is still not sleeping by say 9.45, he may want to drop the nap completely, in which case let him and that should help to completely knock him out for 12.30 nap.

Try not to get too obsessed with the sugar thing, I was but found that after 12 months their apetite declines anyway and then you'll start to give them sugar and salt anyway.

PRufrock, thanks for clarifying that for me. Luckily I didn't start. Babe is down to 2 oz now instead of 7 at 0230 and actually only woke up at 0500 this morning. Unfortuantely I gave in and gave him 4 oz and then he had breakfast at normal time but wouldn't take any more mile until 0230!!!

Plinky thanks for all the trouble you went through-very sweet. But I'm actually following the routine already. But babe seems to be having a lull in feeding at the mo-his second tooth is about to erupt.
Did you mean to say that if he has MORE than 5-6oz at the 0230pm feed he'll be hungry? V Confused. He doesn't normally take more than 5 oz-is this right or do I need to re-read my book? I've read it so often I could probably recite whole paragraphs of it!!!
As mentioned to Prufrock, he's down to 2oz at 0230am now and last night slept to 0515am at which time I offered him 4 oz and he then went back to sleep until 0730. I know he's not supposed to sleep later than 0700, but I've tried this before and it hasn't affected his subsequent naps (thus far). He has never been a great sleeper until now and the GF method is improving his sleeps. He still only manages about 45 minutes tops in the afternoon though-any ideas??? Thought it might be him coming out of his "light sleep" and tried to let him cry it out but he went a bit "mental" on both occasions!!!
Also, what should I do if he continues to wake at 0500 in the morning-feed him then or make him cry it out until 0700? I find that if I feed him earlier and leave a good break before offering breakfast, he eats a better breakfast otherwise he has one or the other-mil or b/fast.
He has never been a great eater-that's how we got into trouble with the b/feeding-more interested in sleeping than sucking!!!
Sorry this seems so confusing and long-winded, but like you say, sometimes I hate certain aspects of motherhood!!!