Please help - can't do this much longer!

[popsycal]

Sorry if the thread title souns melodramatic but that is how I feel today. Look here for a bit of background.

Basically I am nearly 7 months pregnant. DS is 2y 4m and is waking constantly in the night. Never getting more than 2 hours sleep at a time. He doesn't wake for long, and even if I don't get up to see him, I still wake up. And he wakes around 5am

Have tried:
CC - he goes to sleep fine, but still wakes loads
grobag - too cold; cot duvet - kicks it off - too light; single bed duvet - dripping with sweat
early nap, late nap, no nap, short nap, long nap - nothing makes the slightest difference.
ignoring in the night - wakes up properly then
teaching settling techniques - showing him where spare dummy is, cup of water etc....

He isn't scared of the dark, he doesn't want to come in our bed (the opposite infact - he doesnt like coming in).

The only thing we have left to try is buying a bed - which we are doing tomorrow.

Just need to moan really.
Pops xx

Would he understand a sticker chart. One sticker if he is quiet in the night sort of thing. Stopped our dd getting up in middle of night and coming into our bed.

Ive never been good at finding answers for childrens problems. I've just kind of got on with it, so sorry not going to be much help. It will seem like an eternity at the moment but he will get better with age. I am sure you will get more practical advice, i just wanted to give you my support.xxx

Not sure he would understand a sticker chart just yet. he loves stickers but not sure he would 'get' the chart concept at the minute.

Thanks for the speedy suggestions though!

Or he could just get a sticker - leave the chart out

Popsy - woolworths and mothercare do the warm fleecy kinds of sleepsuits with feet on them that even with my DS4.5 I find keeps him from waking in the night. It might be worth looking at - 3 for 2 in woolies at the mo. and buy 1 get one 1/2 price in mothercare. Woolies ones seem better quality the ones we bought last year are still going strong.

Although a sticker isn't enough of a reward at his age, is there a 'thing' that he really wants that would be?

E.g. with my DS at that age we bought a small lego police motorbike that he had been asking for. We split the pieces into 7 little bags and he got one bag every morning that he had slept in his own bed all night without disturbing us. By the end of the week he had all the pieces to make the toy with. (we did organise it so that he got the pieces in the right order so that he could build a bit each morning - but that might just be a bit too anal!!)

Good luck - must be difficult when your heavily pregnant

soapbox - you have just jogged my memory! we have a fleecy sleepsuit which we bought when we stayed in a caravan about 2 months ago and it was FREEZING! Just a question - do you put the fleecy on over PJs or instead of? He was sweating last night with just PJs and a 4.5 single bed duvet....

I am getting desperate - will try anything (but paranoid about overheating!)

As for something he really wants.....will give that some thought!

You just need the fleecy pjs (gro-suit), no other pjs. Try the cot duvet again. DT2's godmother swears by the fleecy suits. Her DSs were forever cold at night and she says that the suits were a godsend. hth

It's a tricky age isn't it? There are loads of problems you can canounter at this age, but as they are still learning so much, it's difficult to find a strategy that works.

Do you know for what reasons he wakes?

Break them down into possibilities and deal with them one at a time. Get the heating in the room right, with the appropariate clothing. Once you are sure this is solved then start on the other things.

I am almost certain (obviously only almost, because we can only ever comment on similar behaviour with our own) that sleeping through is something all children CAN do, and it is a question of training them to do it.

His waking seems a) habitual and b) something that's been going on for some time now?

Get your daytime structure sorted and consistent. Even if he doesn't nap always - put him in his room "for a nap" at the same time every day. I think that even at this age, daytime sleep can still balance out nightime sleep. Try and do it every day (I know this is hard, because you have to be at home etc.) D the exhausting things in the mornings, and have quieter afternoons.

Then start to deal with night wakings. Decide on a strategy, and then (hard bit) stick to it rigidly. No matter what.

Even if he wakes up completely, I think that the message has to get through eventually, that he has to go back to sleep himself. I do believe they pick up on the fact that you will come and see them if they shout loud enough. They can seem to have very "sound" reasons for your help (cup of water, dummy etc) but I think you need to stop giving him whatever he asks for, because he will just know then, that he can keep getting you up for this help.

I think (I say a lot of I think, because again - only you know your own child best) that you can always go in once. But do not talk, or make eye contact, or work in the dark / with minimal lighting. Once it's established that he is not ill / been sick, or whatever, simply say "It's bedtime now" and "time for sleeping". Tuck up and leave the room. Then either don't go back in, or do it in a CC fashion (wait 5 mins, then leave it 10 mins, then leave it 15 mins etc). TRY not to get cross, talk, shout, reason, give into demands. Sooner than you think, he should pick up on the fact that mummy (or daddy) is VERY borning at night, and there's no point in waking up at all.

I do know this. EVERY difficult nighttime sleeper (who has no other "issues" like excma / SN or whatever) I have ever come accross in r/l (or on teevee!!) can be persuaded by a consistent strategy to give up nighttime waking. But once you start emplying your strategy, you will find the first few nights hellish, and that's why it's so hard to be consistent.

Anyway - sorry for rambling. Hope you get a good nights sleep soon!

Sounds as though he does need a bed popsycal. When I put my children into a bed I got a stairgate and put it across the door so that they could not go wandering about the house.

Personally I wouldn't leave a drink for during the night because that in itself encourages waking. What about getting rid of the dummy - would he sleep better without losing it in the night and waking to search for it? Not sure about that one as 3 out of 4 of mine were thumb suckers. The one who had a dummy stopped using it at 8 months.

I still have a light on in the hall overnight so the place is not pitch black. It is a low energy bulb on the stairs.

Hope you find a solution soon.

Popsycal I didn't have chance to read the whole of the previous thread you wrote but have read all of this one.

Firstly in terms of sleeping bags etc. My dd (26months) is in a 2.5 tog bag with long sleeved vest and fleecy all-in-one sleepsuit underneath it. It seems to keep her just right. I think duvets aren't a good idea if they're very wriggly.

Secondly, contrary to what other people have said I strongly disagree with putting a child who's having trouble sleeping into a bed. The move to a bed almost always encourages children to get out and about in the night even when they were previously sleeping well. I know there's a few people with experiences to the contrary but most commonly it makes matters worse at least for a while than better. Are you thinking of moving him because he's too cramped?

Thirdly, how verbal is he? (popsy, we used to discuss our kids language when I had a different name that got me into trouble. Remember? ) Is it possible to ask him about why he wakes etc.? Or if not to tell him that when he wakes he doesn't need to call for you, that you're tired and he should roll over and cuddle his teddy (or whatever) and go back to sleep on his own? This worked very well recently for me when dd started inexplicably waking in the night.

Fourthly I wouldn't cut out his nap. Generally under age 3 sleep = sleep so it's more likely to be overtiredness affecting him than undertiredness.

Fifthly, could there be something psychologically bothering him? Is he, do you think, deep down slightly worried about there being a new baby? Did this sleep problem coincide with any changes in your lives other than that? They are so sensitive you know and pick up on everything going on around them. Recently I was talking about dd having a slightly red ear to a friend while she was playing happily in a sandpit on her own right across the room and she reached out and started feeling her ear, she must've been listening to everything we said!

I really hope it gets better soon. Broken sleeps are a nightmare. Dd's been all over the place this last 10 days as she's had 'croup' and laryngitis and been coughing for 3 bouts of an hour each in the night. I'm totally exhausted. I don't know what day of the week it is any more. But for you this has been going on for months ...

Can't really help you as you seem to have tried everything I can think of, but I wanted to say that my first ds often woke up in the night and was hell to get back to sleep (we got drawn into a trap whereby he only fell asleep if I was holding his hand and I then had to judge when he was asleep enough to remove my hand - woe betide me if I judged it wrong!) Anyway, ds2 was born exactly 18 months after ds1 and from that day onwards, ds seemed to sleep the night. DS2 was a good sleeper early on too. I just hope for you that your ds responds in the same way as my ds did to having a baby in the house.

Oh gosh - thank you so much ladies, for takign such a lot of time to respond. I honestly feel emothional now (hormonal and sleep deprived is NOT a good combination!!)

Catbet -
We are working on the assumption that he was waking cos he was cold in his grobag - hence the move to the duvet and the subsequent kicking off and waking as he was cold. Last night, I put a normal single duvet on him and he was literally sweating when we went to bed, so I put the cot duvet back on. We are trying to get hold of some duvet clips to solve that problem. I think, tonight, he can either have the fleecy sleepsuit and light weight duvet or long sleeved vest, pj and 2.5 grobag.....

His waking is habitual - but it is odd. He generally wakes if he is cold (and I am a paranoid mummy who takes the grobag temperature guide as gospel). We can ignore him sometimes and do if we can.

He has a pretty structured day time routine since i work 'full time'. Although I have been on the sick for a while, his routine has remained (still going to childminders etc). His mornings generally are energetic with a nap after lunch (which I now keep to less than an hour) and a quiet afternoon. The bedtime routine is pretty standard (although he has developed a fear of the bath.......that is another of my threads though which I must update as we had great success last night!)

I think we need to sort out bedding first - try to get him at the right temperature and with no risk of kicking off covers then we can ignore him in the night. Am fine about doing CC in the night - did it to go to sleep a year ago and it only took one night.

The dummy issue - one i have been thinking about a lot....will get bedding sorted first - not feeling that brave yet.

And as for the bed.....we really do need to get him one. Bump is due in a few months so he needs to be settled and sorted. Been putting it off for ages!

THanks so much girls
(and bluemoon, I do know who you are)

Forgot to mention - when we do go in to see him, we do it like in CC. No eye contact, say 'go to sleep its still bed time, cover him up and leave.......

Just thought id throw my ten pence worth in
DD stopped sleeping through the night about 20mths,i moved her into a bed and put a gate on the door to stop 3am wanderings and she started to settle again.Also about the duvet thing DD has a single duvet but instead of it being lenghthways in the bed it is across the bed with half of it tucked under the mattress,she has a cot bed so this is the only way a normal duvet would fit anyway but it would work in the cot also as i done the same with both ds's when they were in the cot and at the kicking off the covers stage.HTH

Have you tried putting socks on him in his grobag? I found that did seem to stop ds waking up cold. I think the grobag temperatures often seem very cold - really, I think you can ignore them and use your common sense with a great big boy of two. Put a thinnish blanket over the grobag or dress him in a fleecier sleep suit.

i put my baba in a grobag with a short sleeve bodysuit underneath and when i put her in the cot, 5 mins later she was screaming the place down and i thought whats wrong with her?, i couldnt figure it out until i figured it out, her arms were cold and i put a sleepsuit on instead (long sleeve) and she was flat out for the night. (we've got a warm house but baba was cold)

popsy - sympathies.

Dd did exactly this (albeit only for 2 weeks) when i was 7 months preg with ds. I was terrified: I was so tired and so scared I wouldn't be able to handle the new baby.

I suggest taking it in turns to be the one to get up for a night - when it's not your turn, sleep with ear plugs (they're great - dh swears by them ).

Also agree with socks in grobag, or a light blanket over the top. And a bed. Or a matress on the floor initially.

I have pretty much ignored the grobag temps....his room is around 22 and he has pjs and short sleeved vest normally...and often cellular blanket on top too......

Anyway - he has gone to bed half an hour later tonight with vest and fleecy sleep suit on and light blanket at the mo as the house is hot hot hot tonight for some reason!

Will put grobag on when i go to bed....fingers crossed!

Sympathy, sympathy. I'd say go for the bed sooner rather than later. that way he will be the big boy and will not feel that he is being pushed out of his cot for the baby. Also with a proper bed you can tuck him in a lot more firmly and he is less likely to kich off his bedding, which will help to keep him at the right temperature

If it helps dd went thorugh this phase and it just seemed to go of its own accord after a while

update.....slept better last night...but took him out of fleecy suit as he was dripping with sweat - he is just a really hot boy!
made sure room was warmed than it has been. vest, pjs, grobag and cellular blanket - slept sounfd til 4, awake but ignored him,,,,then woke at 5....

I took bluemoon's idea and decided to chat with him last night....conversation went as follows....

me: you know when you wake up in the night
ds: yes
me: what do you do?
ds: shouting - mammy daddy where are you or singing
me: ok so if you wake up tonight, just cuddle milo or panda and get your spare dummy under your pillow....
ds: ok
me: so what do you do if you wake up: dummy, milo, panda, night night

tonight....same conversation........replied immediately with get dummy and milo then a winkle appeared in his eye and a cheeky grin.....then he said.
Oh no - i shout. shout loud. maaaaammmmmmmmy love yoooooooooooou. lights books cartoons!

argh!!!
:)

rm a winkle clearly should be twinkle

seafood i not in ds's eye!

Hi Popsycal we have had this problem since ds went into a bed 5 months ago (he is 40 months) Im pretty sure he is frightened of the bed at night cos he thinks he might fall out etc - though we have got a bed guard etc - he wakes up screaming and shrieking or talking about anything. HE also gets ridiculously hot like your Ds.

TBH at 22 degrees he would be sleeping under a sheet and nothing else except maybe a vest - could your ds be getting cold cos he has first got too hot and then sweated and got a chill - just an idea cos both mine do this

HTH nothing else to add cos ive got the same prob - and worse with dd who is 6 months now - My big tip for when your new baby is born is too make sure they dont mind noise cos ours wakes when a pin drops - well almost - tryign very hard to solve problem

just books the last bit again popsy - to dh who is laughing too - cos ds now refuses a nap during day (though he desparately needs it) wakes at 5:30 regularly and says "MUMMY PUT THE LIGHT ONNNNNNNNN" "WANT BOOKS" Even if he slept till 7am i still think he needs a nap even though hes in bed at 7am

WE really really know how you feel -and how tired you are - fraid birth of baby is not likely to help :( I know from experience

How is DH friends computer?

Popsy - I wonder if the ambient temperature is too high - I know I struggle to sleep if its hot in the room, leaves me feeling a bit muggy.

I would turn the temp down in his room to about 19degrees and put his fleecy on, so he's cosy but not sweaty and muggy!

You will of course be getting soooo much conflicting advice now so do feel free to ignore this:):):)

lol - thanks for all advice....

have tried the cold room, the warm roon etc...
anyway - room tonight :) is about 20-21 degrees......it will drop to about 18 in the night..he has pjs and light blanket at the minute and woke up a moment ago shouting 'very hot'...so in pjs and light sheet now.......!!

(H's mates pc is very dead :()