Help me with sleep training please!

[Mamabear04]

I know so many people on mumsnet are not for sleep training so please just people who have sleep trained to help and comment...

DS is 5mo about to turn 6mo in a couple of weeks. From birth he was a really good sleeper and I made sure to put him down in his moses basket as soon as he fell asleep, there were even a couple of occasions when he fell asleep independently when I put him down which was amazing. Once Once 4mo sleep regression hit we used more methods to get him to sleep ie feeding/holding but always tried to put him down drowsy but awake but it didn't seem to work anymore so we did some very gentle controlled crying starting at 1 min, 2 min, 3 min and he would always fall asleep within 7 mins of doing it - great! So this is how we've been putting him down for naps and his night sleep and sometimes he doesn't ever gurn! The past week however we've had a bit of nightmare after he wakes for his first night feed. He'll go down easily and then sleep for about 4 hours (he was doing 5-7 hours prior to the 4mo regression) and then after the first feed he's up every 45min -2 hours. We have tried the controlled crying during the night last month but it didn't work maybe because we're still sleeping in the same room? But also we have a 3yo going through some sleep problems (nightmares, fear of wearing the bed, fear of the dark so won't get out of bed herself to go to the toilet) so didn't want the baby to wake her up with his crying.

I guess my question is where do we go now? DH wants to move DS into his own room but if we do that I think we might have to night train (we did ferber method with DD at 6.5mo and it worked amazingly but we went into the training straight off the back so completely different to DS approach). I'm actually for the ferber to get it over and done with but I'm scared he'll wake DD up again as their bedrooms will be next to eachother. We don't have anyone to take her apart from DP but they have been looking after her for the past 2 days (plus DS on account of having to go to a funeral yesterday) so I feel they will want/need a break. I'm also dreading it as the gentle night training hasn't worked up until now. Any suggestions?

DS is on 4 naps (I think about to drop to 3). He goes to bed at around 7.30pm and wakes 5.30-6.30am. We have started weaning him with purees (2 ice cube portions a day roughly) and is EBF. We have a very firm bedtime routine of into PJs, nappy, boob, song.

What should we do now?

I should also say there have been 2 nights in the past week where feeding/rocking to sleep is not even working and he wakes as soon as he's put down in his cot. I think he's teething but DH thinks he's just not sleeping well. We had one of these nights last night so I tired some ibuprofen before his fist feed but it didn't make a difference...

For the 3 year old, can't you leave a potty by the bed and a night light on? I've not met many 3 year olds that would be comfortable going to the toilet alone at night without disturbing their carers.

I know you said you only want comments from others who are pro sleep training, but your baby’s sleep is developmental. Do you intend to walk train and talk train before they’re ready to do those too? Why can’t you just let them develop at their own rate? Sometimes we just have to go with where our babies are at that time rather than forcing our own agenda on them. It’s hard but it’s parenting.

Constant ups and down and changes of sleep are normal in the first year and beyond. They're developing so fast.

sarahockwell-smith.com/2017/07/24/the-rollercoaster-of-real-baby-sleep/

You also say Ferber worked well for your older child, and then you say this -

But also we have a 3yo going through some sleep problems (nightmares, fear of wearing the bed, fear of the dark so won't get out of bed herself to go to the toilet)

Do you not think there might be a connection there?!

You also say Ferber worked well for your older child, and then you say this

But also we have a 3yo going through some sleep problems (nightmares, fear of wearing the bed, fear of the dark so won't get out of bed herself to go to the toilet)

Do you not think there might be a connection there?!

I've come across this in RL a few times where the parent absolutely cannot see the connection.

We had similar difficulties with our second at the same time. She spent a month with very broken sleep, waking frequently. We were beyond exhausted and one night I kicked DH out to the sofa and DD and I coslept. She slept through and the next night we moved her to her own room and she continued to sleep through. We didn't have to do any kind of sleep training. I strongly believe we'd been disturbing her by sharing a room. So I definitely think its worth a try. However, I'd try moving him to 3 naps first and see whether that has an impact. All of my 3 had moved onto 3 naps by 5 months (they're all different of course). So it could be if he's getting a little too much day time sleep (or at the wrong times) it's impacting the night sleep, although I'm a firm believer of sleep feeds sleep.

I think your routines and views align pretty closely with my own. We did strict routines and were very focused on what they needed. I used to do a sleep diary when we encountered sleep problems, as it used to help me identify what was going on. Sleep is indeed linked to development but all that means is that you need to find ways to help them that suit them. Starting with routine has always been my starting point and sleep training as a last resort. We used the gradual retreat which worked really well when we did need to do it.

With your 3yo can I suggest a red light bulb. When our second was nearly 3, our third was 6mo and we too had similar problems with her waking. She was very much scared of the dark and the HV recommend the red light which worked really well. She also recommended a warm flannel which helped on occasion.

Thanks for all your responses. I did say if you don't want to sleep train then please don't comment. I respect that people are not for it but you also have to respect that I am. DD has slept amazingly for 2.5 years and never experienced a sleep regression until now. I can hold my hands up and say it is mostly because of a bad parenting decision to let her watch monsters Inc. She has also gone through some big changes ie new sibling, moving into a big bed and starts nursery in 2 weeks so there are many factors that are contributing to this. I know plenty kids who were never sleep trained who start having nightmares at 3yo when their imaginations develop.

Does anyone have any advice re ferber training and how to navigate waking the whole house?

@MaverickSnoopy thanks for sharing your experiences. I do think we are at a point of waking eachother up so maybe I need to rejig the kids furniture so that their beds are further away. I had a chat with my OH and we've agreed to wait and see how the 3 nap routine goes and to only feed DS x1 (max x2) times during the night. I just find it so odd that DS can go to sleep independently for naps and bed time but can't do it from 12-5am!

@MaverickSnoopy I'll look into the night light. She already has an ikea bear that glows different colours as well as a light that plugs into a socket. I leave a potty in her room for her but she still wants help during the night. I'm not sure what to do to encourage her to do it herself (she goes by herself during the day) but we're still helping her incase she has an accident...

@MaverickSnoopy I'll look into the night light. She already has an ikea bear that glows different colours as well as a light that plugs into a socket. I leave a potty in her room for her but she still wants help during the night. I'm not sure what to do to encourage her to do it herself (she goes by herself during the day) but we're still helping her incase she has an accident...

Mine have never really got up in the night for a wee. Generally though they drink more at the start of the day and not so much before bedtime, plus a trip to the toilet right before lights out. It's specifically a red light bulb in either the main overhead light or a desk lamp as it fills the whole room with light but keeps it very very low and soothing.

Mine have never really got up in the night for a wee. Generally though they drink more at the start of the day and not so much before bedtime, plus a trip to the toilet right before lights out

Encouraging drinks in the first part of the day is good. Maybe offer things like hot choc or diluted juice in the mornings OP?

@PritiPatelsMaker @MaverickSnoopy I have tried this and tried limiting drinks after 5pm (bed at 7pm) plus always a pee before bed. I honestly don't know how she still needs to pee!!!! Any ideas? I even had her tested for a UTI just incase...

I have tried this and tried limiting drinks after 5pm (bed at 7pm) plus always a pee before bed. I honestly don't know how she still needs to pee!!!! Any ideas? I even had her tested for a UTI just incase...

It's difficult isn't it? One thing that can happen is that they get attention at night for wanting a wee so it can become a thing that when they stir, they are guaranteed attention if they need the toilet.

Two things to try to eliminate the waking are making sure they're warm enough. Lots of people stir around 3 am as the temperature drops. My DD likes to be warm and I used to put a fleece blanket underneath her bottom sheet in the Winter.

The other one is us she eating enough in the day? There's a list of foods that promote sleep heree*.

And one last thing, is she getting outside enough in the day? This study on young babiess* shows that daylight promotes sleep at night but I think that it's pretty well recognised now that sunlight helps all of us to sleep