am I asking too much?!

[elliott]

I'm not sure whether I have a problem or not, but would like some feedback.
ds is nearly 1, and 'sleeps through' from 7 to about 6.45 (in a cot in his room). he has a regular bath, book, bottle and bed routine. I try to have a regular nap schedule, on a good day this will be about 45 mins in the morning and about 1.5 hours after lunch. At nursery (3x a week) he has only one sleep of between 45 - 90 mins - not enough.

My 'problem' is this - he nearly always cries himself to sleep at naptimes and bedtimes, and cries briefly (less than a minute) several times a night. At night, I generally let him settle himself back to sleep unless the crying is prolonged, distressed sounding or I have convinced myself he may be teething/ill. If I get up to him, it is usually a brief check, stroke and shush, but sometimes he gets calpol or rarely a small bottle if he is not settling. I'm never very convinced that going in to him actually comforts him or helps him to get back to sleep - often when I leave he cries harder and I've probably only succeeded in waking him up more.

At naptime, his crying may be brief (less than 5 minutes) or more prolonged (20 minutes or so, but intermittent) before he falls asleep and has a good nap. At bedtime, the crying is usually very short or occasionally non existent if he falls asleep on the bottle.

My 'problem' is that it distresses me to walk out and leave him crying, even though I know he needs to sleep and is better for it - he has always fought sleep and easily gets overtired. I have never been able to get him to sleep by cuddling or rocking, or even feeding, so have evolved this pattern where I just leave him to it. I am wondering if he will ever be able to go to sleep happily. Also, I am also usually woken in the night when he cries out, and lie there feeling guilty about not going to him, even though when I do, I don't think it helps.

I realise that on the scale of sleep problems this is rather minor, but I am interested to know if others have had similar experiences, or even if you are horrified by my current approach!!I just can't see an alternative - is it too much to hope that he'll learn to go back to sleep quietly?

Elliot - I really wouldn't worry. Dr Ferber, as quoted by the great GF calls this "crying down" and seems to suggest that it is perfectly natural and doesn't mean that he is unhappy. My dd tends to do the same.

Yup. Totally normal. If he's happy during the day that's all that matters. I always think of that going to sleep crying as his way of saying 'oh, I'm so very tired'. When I'm tired and grumpy I'd hate to have someone sitting there fussing over me. Much rather be left alone to go off at my own pace. I find the more tired he is the more he cries. If I get him into bed at bedtime, but before he looks tired, he usually doesn't cry. By the time his eyes are drooping and he's fretful, he cries. If he wakes in the night and is crying I go in to check, but if all is well, I leave. Recently though, and very ususually, he was distressed and needed one of us to sleep with him, so we put a mattress on the floor in his room. He was fine on his own the next night. Maybe it was a bad dream. I think you're doing fine.

Elliott, I think you are doing fine as you are and your approach seems very sensible to me. I know what you mean about when you go to them and then leave they cry harder and I think sometimes it is best to leave them to try to settle themselves, unless of course they get very distressed. I always think that getting the balance right in these situations is quite difficult. You are obviously a very caring mum and I don't think anyone will be "horrified" by your approach.
One thing that does occur to me, maybe your ds doesn't need the morning nap any more and might then settle better at lunch time and possibly sleep for a bit longer. My dd is 16 months now and it was around 12 months that she cut out her 9 am nap. Just a thought. In addition, you could also try bringing his bedtime forward to 6.45 pm - I know this might sound silly, but as you say, if they do get overtired they take longer to settle, certainly the case with my dd who (like me) absolutely loves her kip!!
Hope this helps.

Oh no Sobernow! I was hoping that someone would say I didn't have to go into DS if he cried in the night. Last night I reckon (lost count) that he must have cried at least 9 times. Plus I've got a cough from sinusitis so spent a couple of hours (1 am to 3 am) on the settee. I don't really think he is properly awake and its a covers off issue so I've been reading the sleeping bag thread which is on the go at the moment.

Dd use to cry oy 4-5 times at 9 pm each night. The first few times it happened I ran into her room, but she was asleep. I found this most confusing until M in L told me that Dh did the same thing!

elliot, we have almost exactly the same experience (to the minute!) with our 13month dd, except in our case we have given up all together trying to get dd to nap in cot and end up going for long walks or drives! - somehow it's easier to ignore the crying when you're driving or walking!

DD also sleeps worse at nursery (3x week) so we try and get her to sleep more on non-nursery days to catch up.

I think aloha hit it on the head - it's not upset crying, it's 'I'm tired' crying - I can usually hear the difference now. We describe the middle of the night cries as 'squarks' - makes you feel better about it. Middle of the night cries used to be dreadful for us as dd was in the same room until about 9 months and I'd always get up to her. Now she has her own room and basically we ignore any squarks until 6.30am. Course that doesn't help us go back to sleep but that's another problem...

thanks all for reassuring me that I'm not an incipient child abuser - I sometimes get a bit guilt tripped about letting him cry. My head knows that it is just his way of getting to sleep, but my heart hates it!
Melly, I don't think he is ready to do without two naps yet - his night time behaviour is if anything worse after his one nap days at nursery. In fact I think part of the problem is that he is always on the edge of overtiredness. Earlier bedtime might help, but we just can't do it any quicker on a work day!
Phillipat - 'squarks' is a good description - I find the stranger the noise, the more asleep he is! When he was younger I had to pace the streets every naptime, and I'm determined not to go back to that now he is in a reasonable routine in his cot.
Bozza, I have to say I don't go to him unless he cries persistently - otherwise I'd have a major exhaustion problem. I'm another sleeping bag devotee, btw - can't imagine life without it.
Thanks again, glad I'm not the only one with a squarker!

Elliott - you are right. DS goes from total silence to an extremely loud squark (ie doesn't build up the cry from a grumble) and if I was sure he wasn't cold I wouldn't go to him and I'm sure we would cure it in a couple of nights. I know what I am now telling myself - get a sleeping bag.....BTW this almost never happens at naptime when he is fully clothed and rarely happens in the evening when the house is till warm. Also he generally goes down at night without a murmur.