Toddler Sleep Training - How?

nobodygirl2023 · 2022-12-31T07:18:54+00:00

Little bit of background - my little girl is 2.5 yrs and I'm due DD2 in 2 weeks time by elective c-section. We did the Ferber method of sleep training when DD1 was around 7-8 months (please no judgement) and it worked really well really quickly. We got a good 18 months of mostly sleeping through. When she was around 2 she started needed held to sleep again, and waking alot in the night - we were all knackered so started bringing her into our bed when she woke up (previously we only did this if unwell). When moved to our new house in the summer, we took opportunity to transition her from her cot to a toddler bed and it went really well. I still needed to lay with her til she fell asleep (I bought a bunch of floor cushions) but she mostly stopped waking in the night. However, last two months or so have been awful. This coincided with removing her dummy & a series of bugs/viruses. We are now at point where yes, she will go down ok at night - but refuses to go in her bed - she wants to lie cuddling me on the floor cushions til she falls asleep (I then lift her into bed & go to my own bed). She then wakes multiple times a night either shouting on me for cuddles (in which case she wants to get out and lie with me on the floor cushions again) or she appears in our room & jumps into bed with us and DH reluctantly takes off to the spare room. None of this feels sustainable when we also throw a newborn into the mix. But how do I stop these habits now with a child who - even if I wanted to - I couldn't leave to cry / self settle as she'll just get up and follow me out of the room, won't even get into bed in first place and just gets in/out as she pleases and screams blue murder if we don't do it her way? We have a night/day clock which she understands but totally ignores. Any tips or advice greatly appreciated and sorry for long post.

MissEDashwood19 · 31/12/2022 07:44

Watching this. This could be me except I already have the 2.5 year old and newborn. The night is a misery and I dread bedtimes - so you're not alone, even if it's a rubbish club to be in.

Our DD was a great sleeper until recently, which of course coincided with late pregnancy and having a newborn. We did move house at the beginning of autumn, but that didn't impact on her sleep.

She's also out of the cot as she was attempting to climb out. Bedtime routine- bath, stories, bed hasn't changed. I feel like I've failed her some how that she is now such a poor sleeper.

We have had to buy a single mattress for her room, so that my husband can lie on it to resettle her when she wakes up and even that doesn't always work.

I won't allow her in our bed at night (allowed to come in first thing in the morning) as she messes about chatting, singing and laughing and I'm up multiple times in the night with the baby (who is in our bedroom), which would disturb her even more.

I'm now considering moving with the baby into his bedroom and allowing my husband and daughter to sleep in our bed.

One of my siblings said we need to be tougher and just let her cry it out but, as you say, even if we were OK with it (which we're not as we feel it would traumatise her)she would just leave the room and follow us.

jadedspark · 31/12/2022 07:54

A reward chart? She gets a small reward at the end of the week for staying in her bed each night.

You could just take her back to bed each time but you both have to me super strict with it and not give in. Baby gate on the door will help if you get desperate (then you can choose how often you go in to her). She will scream blue murder to begin with.

Original poster

nobodygirl2023 · 31/12/2022 08:24

MissEDashwood19 · 31/12/2022 07:44

Watching this. This could be me except I already have the 2.5 year old and newborn. The night is a misery and I dread bedtimes - so you're not alone, even if it's a rubbish club to be in.

Our DD was a great sleeper until recently, which of course coincided with late pregnancy and having a newborn. We did move house at the beginning of autumn, but that didn't impact on her sleep.

She's also out of the cot as she was attempting to climb out. Bedtime routine- bath, stories, bed hasn't changed. I feel like I've failed her some how that she is now such a poor sleeper.

We have had to buy a single mattress for her room, so that my husband can lie on it to resettle her when she wakes up and even that doesn't always work.

I won't allow her in our bed at night (allowed to come in first thing in the morning) as she messes about chatting, singing and laughing and I'm up multiple times in the night with the baby (who is in our bedroom), which would disturb her even more.

I'm now considering moving with the baby into his bedroom and allowing my husband and daughter to sleep in our bed.

One of my siblings said we need to be tougher and just let her cry it out but, as you say, even if we were OK with it (which we're not as we feel it would traumatise her)she would just leave the room and follow us.

Thanks for your reply. It's good to know I'm not the only one.

You've made the right call not allowing her in your bed - I wish we'd never got into that habit but was path of least resistance when we were so tired.

OP posts:

PeppermintChoc · 31/12/2022 08:27

We did the disappearing chair method. Spent 2-3 nights in the same spot before moving further away. Worked an absolute treat.

Original poster

nobodygirl2023 · 31/12/2022 08:27

jadedspark · 31/12/2022 07:54

A reward chart? She gets a small reward at the end of the week for staying in her bed each night.

You could just take her back to bed each time but you both have to me super strict with it and not give in. Baby gate on the door will help if you get desperate (then you can choose how often you go in to her). She will scream blue murder to begin with.

Yeah a reward chart worked well for toothbrushing so might be an idea actually. You're right in that we need to be tough/very disciplined to make anything work and live with the screaming for a while. I've probably taken the easier options as been so knackered with pregnancy and various illnesses. Timing now seems even worse with baby due.

A gate may work but do think she'd try to climb it.

OP posts:

Original poster

nobodygirl2023 · 31/12/2022 08:29

PeppermintChoc · 31/12/2022 08:27

We did the disappearing chair method. Spent 2-3 nights in the same spot before moving further away. Worked an absolute treat.

Thanks. I've seen people mention this before but since I can't even get her into her bed in first place I'm not sure it'd work. Maybe I need to remove the floor cushions as a starter so that option isn't there but they have been a lifesaver at times.

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Hatscats · 31/12/2022 08:35

It’s way too late to change much now - in 2 weeks her world will be turned upside down by another baby!
You just need to find a way of getting through the next few months and you find your routine with both. Partner can take over settling the toddler, or get her a bigger bed and sleep in with her. Just do what you can to all get as much sleep as possible. It will probably get worse with new baby arriving too.
You don’t want her to feel rejected if you change things now/when baby arrives.

Original poster

nobodygirl2023 · 31/12/2022 08:45

Hatscats · 31/12/2022 08:35

It’s way too late to change much now - in 2 weeks her world will be turned upside down by another baby!
You just need to find a way of getting through the next few months and you find your routine with both. Partner can take over settling the toddler, or get her a bigger bed and sleep in with her. Just do what you can to all get as much sleep as possible. It will probably get worse with new baby arriving too.
You don’t want her to feel rejected if you change things now/when baby arrives.

Yeah you make a good point. I'm worried about her coming in with me when I have a csection incision to heal so that's a concern but yeah, dont want her to resent the baby either. Part of me thinks let's just wing it and see what new routines develop....but I'm such a worrier and control freak.

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HoHoHowMuch · 31/12/2022 09:29

The supernanny type bed method does work for getting them to bed. You explain that she will be going into her bed and staying there to go to sleep and put her there. Then every time she gets up you put her back. She will get up loads of times on night one and make a huge fuss as it is not what she is used to. Night two hopefully half as many times then after a few days it becomes a routine. You have to never waiver or give in, or she will know she just has to make a fuss for long enough for it to work and double down her efforts.

Agree with pp that it might not be a good idea to associate this with the arrival of the new baby for her to resent. Also you are unlikely to be mobile enough now to do it and certainly not after major surgery, so would have to be your partner helping.

Original poster

nobodygirl2023 · 31/12/2022 11:02

Thanks everyone.

I think a couple of you are right that it's not a good time to go in too tough with new baby on way.

Instinct is to remove the floor cushions so there's no options for cuddling on floor, but I can still stay next to her while she's in her own bed til she falls asleep (maybe on a chair? Having had a previous section I dont think id be able to get up and down from the cushions very well anyway - hopefully if theyre not there she'll get she has to go into her bed). Does this seem like a gentle enough approach for now?

If she comes into our bed, I think it's just something I'll have to live with for a while until I've recovered a bit and we've all settled into a new routine as a family.

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Margo34 · 31/12/2022 11:07

jadedspark · 31/12/2022 07:54

A reward chart? She gets a small reward at the end of the week for staying in her bed each night.

You could just take her back to bed each time but you both have to me super strict with it and not give in. Baby gate on the door will help if you get desperate (then you can choose how often you go in to her). She will scream blue murder to begin with.

This.

Be clear on the boundaries and hold them. None of this We have a night/day clock which she understands but totally ignores. What's the point of having it if you accept and let her ignore it?

Keha · 31/12/2022 20:11

I also had an older child who's sleep went a bit to pot a few weeks before baby was born. My only potential reason why was that I had a couple of nights away from home which messed with her normal routine.

So, I just let DD sleep with me a lot or went and slept with her when she wanted when baby was born and my and DH worked around bringing baby to be fed etc or getting DD back to sleep, so there was quite a lot of swapping around through the night and just doing whatever kept DD asleep (because if she got no sleep the next day was awful for everyone). I didn't try to start anything new like a reward system around the due date as I was too knackered and it felt too much. Once baby was about 6 weeks we started to be a bit firmer but quite slowly eg getting back into the swing of me and DH alternatingly bedtimes and her falling asleep in bed. My experience was that her sleep was initially even worse when DS was born but quite quickly settled down. I found having a new born so intense I couldn't do much more than just try to survive with sleep and do whatever was needed that night. 8 weeks in and things are definitely improving.

Original poster

nobodygirl2023 · 31/12/2022 22:41

Keha · 31/12/2022 20:11

I also had an older child who's sleep went a bit to pot a few weeks before baby was born. My only potential reason why was that I had a couple of nights away from home which messed with her normal routine.

So, I just let DD sleep with me a lot or went and slept with her when she wanted when baby was born and my and DH worked around bringing baby to be fed etc or getting DD back to sleep, so there was quite a lot of swapping around through the night and just doing whatever kept DD asleep (because if she got no sleep the next day was awful for everyone). I didn't try to start anything new like a reward system around the due date as I was too knackered and it felt too much. Once baby was about 6 weeks we started to be a bit firmer but quite slowly eg getting back into the swing of me and DH alternatingly bedtimes and her falling asleep in bed. My experience was that her sleep was initially even worse when DS was born but quite quickly settled down. I found having a new born so intense I couldn't do much more than just try to survive with sleep and do whatever was needed that night. 8 weeks in and things are definitely improving.

Thanks - this is really reassuring in sense it gives me hope we will be able to manage at least for a bit until things are a bit more settled and can start to think about setting firmer boundaries again. I don't really have an issue doing this, I just feel timing has been all wrong and anything for sleep has and will be priority for a while.

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jevoudrais · 31/12/2022 22:52

We have a gate on my DD's room. Mainly because the gates we have are loud so we leave the landing one open and step over her one to get in and out of her room silently. This does mean our bed is never an option though as she can't get to it, we always go into her and settle her in her room (she too is 2.5).

I think it's painful but you've got to be consistent re not letting her settle in your bed. We cuddle to sleep but have a floor bed, DD has never had a cot (wouldn't sleep in it) and had the floor bed since 18 months when she went in her own room. She never bothers to get out of it or mess around she just calls if she wants us and we go and settle her back down. The other perk is it's a lot easier to roll off the floor bed than I imagine it is for you to get her up onto her own bed. I know not much use now, but might be worth considering for the next one?

Hope it improves for you soon, not what you need right now 😩

Keha · 31/12/2022 22:59

@nobodygirl2023 I must say the first 10 days/nights were pretty hellish, but it has definitely got a lot better!

edin16 · 31/12/2022 23:06

Could you both cuddle in your bed and you can get further and further away. DS is the same age and has started asking me for cuddles if he wakes. I just say I'll sit on the end of the bed, give him a couple of bum pats then he's happy to just lie there with me at the foot of the bed.
You could do a couple of nights of cuddles to sleep in her bed. Then you could do five minutes of cuddles the next couple of nights ect. Then retreat to the end of the bed.

Although being heavily pregnant might hinder this slightly depending on her bed size. What is she like for your partner?

pocolocoloco · 31/12/2022 23:11

Honestly I just accepted that things were going to be tough for the first few months (if not longer!).

I have nearly 2 year old and 4 month old both rubbish sleepers. DD1 slept amazing until baby came along. She has her own double bed and would stay down for the whole night. Since baby came it's been a disaster.

I cosleep with baby and DH cosleeps with my toddler.

It's temporary and at least this way we're still getting sleep.

Original poster

nobodygirl2023 · 01/01/2023 08:57

jevoudrais · 31/12/2022 22:52

We have a gate on my DD's room. Mainly because the gates we have are loud so we leave the landing one open and step over her one to get in and out of her room silently. This does mean our bed is never an option though as she can't get to it, we always go into her and settle her in her room (she too is 2.5).

I think it's painful but you've got to be consistent re not letting her settle in your bed. We cuddle to sleep but have a floor bed, DD has never had a cot (wouldn't sleep in it) and had the floor bed since 18 months when she went in her own room. She never bothers to get out of it or mess around she just calls if she wants us and we go and settle her back down. The other perk is it's a lot easier to roll off the floor bed than I imagine it is for you to get her up onto her own bed. I know not much use now, but might be worth considering for the next one?

Hope it improves for you soon, not what you need right now 😩

Thanks for this. I've toyed with the idea of a double floor bed for her but not keen to fork out for a new bed if it's temporary. It's not too bad lifting her in, but definitely getting harder in pregnancy and will be a no-go with a csection to recover from. A gate on the door might end up being way to go once we're all settled into life with new baby.

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Original poster

nobodygirl2023 · 01/01/2023 08:57

Keha · 31/12/2022 22:59

@nobodygirl2023 I must say the first 10 days/nights were pretty hellish, but it has definitely got a lot better!

I suppose there's not much in the way of sleep in those new weeks with a newborn anyway 🥴

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Original poster

nobodygirl2023 · 01/01/2023 09:02

edin16 · 31/12/2022 23:06

Could you both cuddle in your bed and you can get further and further away. DS is the same age and has started asking me for cuddles if he wakes. I just say I'll sit on the end of the bed, give him a couple of bum pats then he's happy to just lie there with me at the foot of the bed.
You could do a couple of nights of cuddles to sleep in her bed. Then you could do five minutes of cuddles the next couple of nights ect. Then retreat to the end of the bed.

Although being heavily pregnant might hinder this slightly depending on her bed size. What is she like for your partner?

This is definitely worth a try - thanks for the suggestion. It's the actually getting her into her bed that's my immediate issue. I need to remove all the floor cushions that she wants to cuddle on but after this thread and a bit of reflection, i think I may now need to wait until I've recovered a bit from csection and try something like this to set a new routine at that point (as painful as that might be).

She currently won't tolerate my DP doing bedtime and if he goes in during the night, it tends to wake her up even more as she asks where I am. Not ideal and something she will have to just get used to when baby arrives.

Slightly hoping she decides the baby is too disruptive at night and will want her own bed for that reason 🤣

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Original poster

nobodygirl2023 · 01/01/2023 09:07

Thanks everyone for your replies and suggestions. I think that I'm just going to take path of least resistance for a bit until I've recovered from csection - but lots of good ideas in this thread for when I'm feeling more upto resetting boundaries and getting a new routine in place. Might mean just allowing her to sleep in with me if she comes through in the night (with baby in crib beside me) for a few weeks.

In short term I think remove the floor cushions so at least we can re-establish a clearer bedtime routine where she goes into her own bed from the get go.

A lesson here for anyone thinking about sleep training younger babies like I did - it can work but everything is so constantly changeable that there's never any guarantees anyway 🤷‍♀️

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Laurenkc87 · 09/01/2023 19:30

I am at my wit's end with our toddlers bed time routine. She is a wonderful girl but she is incredibly strong willed and a lot of things have felt like a battle since she was born, including sleep. She is generally very uncooperative at the moment and she's very clever and is not easily persuaded with choices etc. Bedtimes have become hell for us and her. She is furious at the prospect of bedtime and screams with rage and upset for up to an hour. Nothing I do works, not staying, staying etc. She gets plenty of choice re jammies, books etc but struggles terribly with accepting the separation at bedtime. Please help. I am 15 weeks pregnant and feel so alone. She has also nearly completely rejected my husband so I am doing the lion's share of practical child rearing. None of my friends seem to have a child who is so strong willed and I know longer know where to turn.

RachelSolo · 10/01/2023 13:28

i don’t suppose you have any advice…Ben (17 months) keeps crying and moaning sounding distressed but he also seems to be asleep or at least trying to stay asleep. He doesn’t sit up, he just looks like he’s having a nightmare or is upset about something but doesn’t fully wake up. It goes on for ages then stops for a bit then starts again. Always after midnight or 1ish. It’s keeping all of us up all night at the moment and I don’t know what’s causing it or what we can do. We don’t want to fully wake him up by going in if he’s asleep or getting himself back to sleep but it was every 30mins last night at least 😵‍💫 Anyone know what’s up or have any advice on how to help him?