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Original poster

Sleep training and breastfeeding

28 replies

Tree6543 · 27/12/2022 10:30

Hi, help needed before I lose my mind! My 7mo (nearly 8mo) is breastfed. Weaning is going ok, eating two small meals a day and I’m introducing a third soon.
Sleep is horrendous. We recovered from the 4 month regression of 45 min wakes which lasted months for about 3 weeks (2-3 wake ups - bliss!) then it all went to pot again last week.
During those 3 weeks she was going to asleep alone with her muslin having moved slowly from rocking to shushing to nothing. Now she is screaming for hours at bedtime and screaming for hours overnight even after a feed.
I am struggling massively and need it to change. I’m happy to sleep train. I think I’m going to use Ferber. But, can I feed at all? Or do I need to night wean? And how do I know if she’s ok to do that?
No judgement please, at this point I feel not sleep training has a worse impact than sleep training.

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mintbiscuit · 27/12/2022 10:39

At that age I would still offer a night feed. Others may say not to but I always offered in case of thirst. So feed before bed, then settle down in cot and resettle every few minutes as per your chosen method.

wakes in night offer quick feed then repeat above method.

Once baby has cracked settling you’ll find night feeds decrease a lot as they sleep through for longer (and settle straight after).

Be prepared for those who say you are being cruel…

Thelongwayround · 27/12/2022 10:40

I would say first step here is making sure naps are happening and bedtime is at the right time. You can look at a ton of suggested schedules online. But sleep training works best when you know for a fact they are tired and ready to sleep when you put them down. With my DC if they were crying a lot at bedtime or naptime it was because they weren’t tired or were (very) overtired.

It could also be something to do with what she’s eating if it’s causing discomfort, but you probably know best what sort of crying it is.

Basically sleep training will help them go to sleep independently when they are tired, yes, but it won’t work if there are any underlying problems and it just sounds like there might be something else going on.

ChocoFudge · 27/12/2022 10:42

I sleep trained both of mine with Ferber at 6 months, didn't night wean til 12 months. The sleep training just meant that they only woke if they were actually needing a feed, usually once a night.

tunthebloodyalarmoff · 27/12/2022 10:46

I would give a bottle of formula at 10pm to ensure there is no way of her being hungry through the night. That gave me the confidence to sleep train without worrying about hunger. Good luck

Original poster
Tree6543 · 27/12/2022 10:53

@ChocoFudge oh good that’s helpful to know. I don’t really feel she’s ready to have no feeds & I’m completely happy to keep the ones she needs, but I can’t imagine she really needs them every 2 hours!
When training, did you decide which to keep & just use the method for the other wake ups?

OP posts:
ChocoFudge · 27/12/2022 11:42

Tree6543 · 27/12/2022 10:53

@ChocoFudge oh good that’s helpful to know. I don’t really feel she’s ready to have no feeds & I’m completely happy to keep the ones she needs, but I can’t imagine she really needs them every 2 hours!
When training, did you decide which to keep & just use the method for the other wake ups?

I started off by only feeding after midnight and only after 3 hours from the previous feed. Sent DH in to deal with other wakes so they didn't smell the milk. Didn't take long before they were only waking once or occasionally twice for a feed. Was hourly before that and it was killing me.

lottie198 · 27/12/2022 22:47

They don't recommend to night wean before 18 months. Your baby is 8 months old, it is just a phase. Could they be teething? Have you tried any remedies ? Honestly by baby hardly sleeps when he's going through a teething spell. I really don't think sleep training is the answer here. I really sympathise with the lack of sleep , I've just had a 4 nights of about an hours broken sleep each night due to illness. Babies are needy, they need us, but they won't need us forever. Please think about sleep training seriously before you do it.

Thelongwayround · 28/12/2022 05:18

@lottie198 four nights, wow, are you okay? 🙄

PurBal · 28/12/2022 05:22

I have pmd you

PipsBaby · 28/12/2022 05:23

lottie198 · 27/12/2022 22:47

They don't recommend to night wean before 18 months. Your baby is 8 months old, it is just a phase. Could they be teething? Have you tried any remedies ? Honestly by baby hardly sleeps when he's going through a teething spell. I really don't think sleep training is the answer here. I really sympathise with the lack of sleep , I've just had a 4 nights of about an hours broken sleep each night due to illness. Babies are needy, they need us, but they won't need us forever. Please think about sleep training seriously before you do it.

Why are you assuming OP hasn't thought about this seriously? Purely because it isn't what you have chosen to do so therefore she cannot possibly have made an informed decision about what is best for her child?

Ridiculous, unhelpful comment.

atoxk · 28/12/2022 05:26

@Tree6543 whatever you decide it's a horrific time. Just remember it isn't for long. It feels like it's a life time, but it's a stage and babies move on.

Original poster
Tree6543 · 28/12/2022 06:44

@lottie198 reading back over my op I can understand why you might think it isn’t needed as I rushed it so much. However my baby has never slept longer than 3 hours overnight, & that was very rare. We had 3 months of waking every 45 mins, and recent weeks is every 2 hours.

She’s never settled for anyone but me, meaning she’s been feeding 7 times between 7-7 at nearly 8 months old. They’re not genuine feeds.

She was teething for a few nights a few weeks ago, and has previously had a cold. I can tell the difference between these nights, and her normal nights.

In all honesty after 7 nearly 8 months of doing every bedtime, and never getting more than 2 hours sleep in a row (and often less) I basically broke down yesterday & admitted I couldn’t carry on. That’s why we are where we are.

OP posts:
A1b2c3d4e5f6g7 · 28/12/2022 07:00

We just started sleep training. We've done one where we stay in the room with him. All naps are in the cot, and so is bedtime, and I never feed to sleep now. My partner does the bedtime routine (we are about five days in) as he doesn't settle for me and wants milk. We introduced formula before both naps and bedtime, but I still feed him in the night once or twice when he wakes. I don't think it's necessary but I don't mind doing that at all.

First night took about half an hour to go down, second night a couple of minutes. Sometimes now it takes ten minutes, sometimes one minute. He still wakes in the night, but five nights in and he only woke twice last night. Obviously, as you've said, for any teething and illness we will adjust and he can come back into bed with us. We were worried he wasn't getting enough sleep with hourly wakings, and it would be bad for his development. He seems less tired and grumpy in the day. It was really daunting starting, but I'm glad we have

Greentomatoes21 · 28/12/2022 07:14

No need to night wean if you don't want to. Look up No Judgement Baby and Toddler Sleep Training on Facebook. It's run by a Sleep consultant and it really helpful if you want to sleep train.

WeWereInParis · 28/12/2022 07:19

We sleep trained with the Ferber method. DD is nearly 8 months and will still wake and cry for a feed once or twice a night, but she now goes down happily in the evening and after each feed.

Twizbe · 28/12/2022 07:30

tunthebloodyalarmoff · 27/12/2022 10:46

I would give a bottle of formula at 10pm to ensure there is no way of her being hungry through the night. That gave me the confidence to sleep train without worrying about hunger. Good luck

How is a bottle of formula going to help here? Baby is well established as breastfeeding

Twizbe · 28/12/2022 07:31

I fed to sleep until it stopped working at around 9 months.

Then we used controlled crying to sleep train and night wean.

Took 3-5 nights and was amazing. Both kids slept really well from then.

DC 1 had always been a bit iffy with sleep but tons better after this.

DC2 was a unicorn as a baby but at 9 months went through a tough patch with sleep and this helped lots.

Original poster
Tree6543 · 28/12/2022 07:56

@Twizbe feeding to sleep has only ever worked overnight here weirdly, never to get to sleep or for a nap. But last week it stopped working overnight too! Which is why I began debating training.

OP posts:
Original poster
Tree6543 · 28/12/2022 08:17

Well, night one done and let’s hope it continues! I fed at bedtime, dream fed at 10, fed at 2.30 and then 6. This is probably still more than she needs but I didn’t feel it was fair to cut down more than that yet. That’s still only 4 feeds compared to 7.

My partner went in for three other wakeups to sooth - she was never left to cry. He stroked her and said shhh until she was calm then stepped back from cot and repeated until she fell asleep without him touching her.

Around 2am we heard her chatting to herself and we didn’t go in for 2 mins - she went beck off.

In total she slept 7-7.30 and is full of beans this morning!

I will keep the thread updated for anyone else in the same position.

OP posts:
lottie198 · 28/12/2022 09:43

Thelongwayround · 28/12/2022 05:18

@lottie198 four nights, wow, are you okay? 🙄

Not sure if you are being sarcastic ...
my baby has never slept well either. He's literally slept through the night twice the past 2 days and he's just turned 1. I've done nothing differently, I guess it's because he was ready. I've never had a night off as breast feed (not that I want one).

lottie198 · 28/12/2022 09:45

Tree6543 · 28/12/2022 06:44

@lottie198 reading back over my op I can understand why you might think it isn’t needed as I rushed it so much. However my baby has never slept longer than 3 hours overnight, & that was very rare. We had 3 months of waking every 45 mins, and recent weeks is every 2 hours.

She’s never settled for anyone but me, meaning she’s been feeding 7 times between 7-7 at nearly 8 months old. They’re not genuine feeds.

She was teething for a few nights a few weeks ago, and has previously had a cold. I can tell the difference between these nights, and her normal nights.

In all honesty after 7 nearly 8 months of doing every bedtime, and never getting more than 2 hours sleep in a row (and often less) I basically broke down yesterday & admitted I couldn’t carry on. That’s why we are where we are.

I'm not being judgemental sorry, I do understand why you would be driven to sleep training. I've been at my wits end too. You have to do what you need to do to survive.
Your baby will sleep through one day regardless of if you sleep train or not. I just wouldn't night wean at 8 months as milk is still their main nutrition.

Original poster
Tree6543 · 28/12/2022 09:54

@lottie198 I didn’t want to have to night wean completely, I’m glad to hear other people have managed to sleep train but keep one or two feeds, that’s what I’m aiming for. However what I can’t keep doing is 7 ‘feeds’ (at least half of which are just comfort resettles) every night without going insane.

As you said in a reply to someone else, you don’t want anything to change and are happy which is great. I unfortunately cannot cope for any longer on only having 1-2 hour sleep stints and do need something to change. I feel guilty that I can’t cope, but I can’t.

OP posts:
lottie198 · 28/12/2022 09:58

Tree6543 · 28/12/2022 09:54

@lottie198 I didn’t want to have to night wean completely, I’m glad to hear other people have managed to sleep train but keep one or two feeds, that’s what I’m aiming for. However what I can’t keep doing is 7 ‘feeds’ (at least half of which are just comfort resettles) every night without going insane.

As you said in a reply to someone else, you don’t want anything to change and are happy which is great. I unfortunately cannot cope for any longer on only having 1-2 hour sleep stints and do need something to change. I feel guilty that I can’t cope, but I can’t.

I do get it honestly. I wasn't happy when we had periods of constant feeding like that. I was losing my mind sometimes. I used to even feel rage breast feeding and started to get an aversion towards it. I just wanted to give you another perspective that even if you don't sleep train the baby will most likely naturally drop the feeds themselves and sleep longer. It is a normal way for babies to sleep and I just think everyone has such unrealistic expectations of infant sleep (myself included). Have you read the gentle sleep book? It has tips in there for longer stretches of sleep etc. how long does your baby nap for ?
Don't feel guilty and I hope I didn't make you feel bad because we all do what's right and best for our family. At the end of the day, your baby won't remember. I just didn't want you to think it was the only option,

Pyvadanya · 28/12/2022 10:17

I'm in the same position. I was so tired recently that I started having really dark thoughts and was nearly physically sick. Baby has had a sudden improvement but sleep training ìs definitely on the cards if things continue as they were. Do not feel guilty. I never sleep trained mu other kids as I felt too guilty but am on survival mode with this one and so have changed my opinion!

Geranium1984 · 28/12/2022 10:52

Totally understand why you're doing this, I've been there myself, it is completely unsustainable.
I got my little boy self settling at about 6mo by switching to shush patting during feeding and then in the cot. I also introduced a comforter toy.
Once I was able to shush pat in the cot I left him on his own for 3 mins at a time before going in calming down and leaving him again. Within about 20mins he was sucking on his comfort toy and off to sleep.
I still fed through the night but they reduced to 2 or 3 wakes rather than hourly. Then he slept through at 12mo.
Good luck I hope you get some sleep soon xx