I don't think anyone can 'outdo' my DS for being a terrible sleeper

[PhDiva]

My DS is now one year old. He goes to bed at 7:30-ish and wakes one hour later. I have to walk him to sleep. Then he will wake every single hour, sometimes twice or three times an hour till morning (5 or 6 am). I breast-feed him to sleep every time, as this only takes 10 minutes, whereas walking would mean hysterical screaming and no sleep for anyone. Needless to say, this isn't good. I always envy the posters who say that their child wakes only two or three times a night!

I can't (won't) use cc, but why is he sleeping so badly????????????????????????????? Even if he is teething (if), other babies don't wake this often when they are teething. I think, maybe he isn't drinking enough milk in the day, and is compensating at night, but how do I get him to drink more in the day? Starve him?

Any advice would be gratefully received

This does sound prety bad but will he sleep and feed while in bed with you?. As he goes back to sleep quickly after a feed, this might work

My ds only woke 2-4 times a night but breastfeeding him back to sleep would only work on one of those occasions at most. The other 1-3 times he would stay awake, usually crying and nothing would settle him. He would be awake from 30mins to 2 hours on each wake-up, so although he only woke a few times he stayed awake (and by definition so did I) for long periods.

Co-sleepig didn't work for me as breastfeeding didn't work so whether ds was in a cot or in bed with me he did the same. For your ds I'd say co-sleeping might help you get more sleep.

You must all be exhausted

Does he actually take a proper feed in the night? Does he eat well during the day?

I have a good friend who's son was like this until he was 2 yrs old. He woke every 1-2 hrs and would only go back to sleep after a feed. His parents both managed to work full time throughout this. I've always thought they deserve a place on the NY's Honours List for sheer stamina!

My son wasn't a great sleeper - woke 2-3 times a night for first 18 months or so, then once or twice a night until age of 2 and a half. It had a dreadful effect on my health, mood, relationship etc, so I completely sympathise. In retrospect, I wish we had co-slept instead of banging my head against a brick wall for 2 yrs. At the age of 2 and a half he just started sleeping through for 12 hours a night, no fuss. It was nothing I did or didn't do - it just happened.

Whilst cc is an option and you may get some sleep, it can be counter productive as they get used to sleeping with you and then becomes a struggle when you want your bed back. And really a child needs to sleep in there own bed or cot. I would ask is he in his own room, does he have cot/bed, and how much milk does he drink during the day. Is it only breastmilk that he drinks or do u give cows milk at all, pint of milk a day minimum at this age. Try bit more food say couple healthy snacks between breakfast and lunch and then again between lunch and dinner, not always about milk could just be hungry!!

Waking that often doesn't sound like hunger imo. has he always woken like this? could he have an underlying medical/physical reason? It might be worth just checking for that.

I am tempted to save this thread to make myself feel better having two unsettled sleepers of my own!

Also if you don't want to cc I would suggest something like the 'no cry sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantley'

Could you try feeding him more in the day so he doesn't need so much at night? IME he shouldn't need night time food so it could just be habit and comfort as he wakes, cries for you as he knows you will come and feed him, and he can blissfully go back to sleep with a milky tummy. He needs to learn how to go back to sleep himself when he wakes in the night, and you need to work out how you want to do that.

If you don't want to do CC you could try the pick up/put down routine. This worked in 3-4 days with our then 6 month old when we took his dummy away.

HTH.

I also meant to say that filling up too much on milk could be problem, as then not getting enough food and this can cause them to wake. What i did with my dd1 was at 18mths i cut back on milk cause she was drinkin an awful lot, a pint a day usually before bed. We set a bedtime that was realistic and tried to phase out afternoon naps, (some children are ready for this even at a year old), we gave more food. Bath, read book or looked at book got her calm gave her cup of milk, then take her up at around 730 put her in cot, kissed her said goodnite and shut the door. Yes she did cry i went downstairs and ignored it, went back up lay her back down and did it again. Eventually cryed herself to sleep after 2-3 weeks of this she was fine, realised it was bed time and no amount of crying going to get her out of cot. Now she goes to bed fine and sleeps all night. I know it's hard to leave a child that is really screaming, to cry but this is why they scream and cry because they know mum and dad will give in...it's the same as tantrums, hope you get it sorted so you can get your night times back!!

PU/PD took 3 weeks to work with dd, and now doesn't work at all

A 6 month old is a lot more malleable than a 14 month old

Know just how you feel PHdiva, dd nightmare STILL at 19 months old. You have my sympathy.

She has been referred to development clinic because of it.

Could he be waking for comfort if you are walking / feeding him to sleep? Is he using you as a dummy?

Fizzbuzz, oh no! I was hoping that suddenly and miraculously, ds would just start sleeping properly at 18 months, or whenever. Not sure if I can wait till he is two and half, LoveAngel!

Lazycow, yes I agree awake for ages is terrible too - you just wake up so much yourself that going back to sleep takes the rest of the night.

When I feed him at night, he always drinks for about 5 minutes - I think a one year old can get quite a lot in that time, and I am always surprised that he drinks the next time. Conversely, it is very difficult to get him to take any milk during the day - he just doesn't have the patience. That's what makes me think it may be drink or milk-related.

We tried co-sleeping for a while, but that just encourages him to drink most of the night away, and both he and I are shattered the next day (as opposed to just me).

I am too tired to try any pick-up, put-down methods, and I just cannot do cc in any circumstance.

Well I have given him a does of NEurofen for babies. It didn't help last night, but this time - you never know! Good thing I am an optimist.

I did PU/PD with dd. It didn't cure her, but it made her a lot better.

It was no more tiring than been awake all night with her TBH. It did improve her, but then she got ill and it all started over again. Then she recovered...and got ill....

Well so far, ds has slept one and a half hours straight!!! I know it is too early to get excited, but maybe one of the things I did differently today worked. I fed him more frequently and smaller meals (no big meal just before bedtime), squeezed a 125 ml bottle of milk into him at lunch, didn't give him a bath in the evening (in case it hyped him up as he enjoys it so much), and dosed him with Nurofen before bed.

It is really probably because he is just so knackered, poor little guy!

I'll let you know in the morning if any of the above worked.

fingers crossed

I was certainly not a CC fan, but my husband took over the bedtime duty when I went back to work (mainly cos I was not cracking it, 1 year on !!) He was tough ... I made myself scarce ... She now goes to bed about 7.30 every night ,sometimes even points to the cot .The other possibility is she's just uses more energy running about (15 months old) Best of luck with it !!

Well it was business as usual, unfortunately. At least I can cross the above off the list as playing any part in his night wakings. I do sometimes wonder if I shall be forced down the cc route - ie. leaving my husband to deal with him for a few nights. I guess I have to get quite a bit more desperate before that happens, though.

Sympathies, PhDiva. My son was like this but I only lasted to 6 mths before I got to the end of my tether. I decided to try a form of CC, go in after 5 mins, then keep to 20 mins, just to reassure him, no contact etc. I prepared myself for hell but it worked almost instantly, within 2 nights he was sleeping through 7~7.

He was ready to be left on his own to sleep, I think, as before I had been too conscious of his crying waking Dh and DD and so would breastfeed at the first sign of restlessness. This meant he would never settle on his own.

Anyway, my point is that although DS was a lot younger then your lo, CC may not be as bad as you think. DS only cried for about 10 mins before settling, and that was more whimpering than crying.

HTH, and good luck.....

Surely the fact that you feed him to sleep means that every time he wakes he needs that in order to go back to sleep so it has become a vicious circle. Especially as it means he gets more milk at night so doesn't take so much during the day.

It's normal for babies to wake up in the night but if they know how to go back to sleep by themselves then you don't hear about it...

The "no-cry sleep solution" book is pretty good if you don't want to do cc and want to gently stop feeding him to sleep. And as the others have said - getting as much into him in the day as possible.

Good luck - it must be awful for you. I know that desperate feeling when you'll do anything to get some sleep even if you know that it is perpetuating the problem

My own thoughts (feel free to ignore)

If he's waking that often, it can't simply be hunger. My guess is that he's using the breast to simply get himself back to sleep (whilst enjoying the milk at the same time no doubt). Ditto the walking. It sounds like he needs something, maybe simply contact with mummy to get back to sleep. If that is the case, then changing things around in th day and bedtime routine might make a little difference but not much as he's still not learning how to get back to sleep on his own.

To my mind, I guess you have a couple of choices. Firstly, that you just go with it and hope it gets better over time. Secondly, you help him learn how to get to sleep on his own. There are lots of ways of doing it, including controlled crying - we didn't do that mainly because we (esp. DW) just couldn't bear to leave DD alone to cry for any period of time. What worked for us for sitting with her in her room, hand on her, just shhhing her until she fell asleep. Sounds easy huh! Well, you've got to be incredibly patient and accept that sometimes she'd cry for over an hour whilst trying to get back to sleep BUT she was never alone and knew mummy (or more often daddy!) was right there next to her. If you're struggling to do it and listen to her cry (even though you're next to her) make sure DH does as much as he can. For us it was a bit easier in the sense that we knew she wasn't hungry so it definitely was a case of her just struggling to get to sleep.

In your case, if you are worried about her being hungry at any stage, just take a step back. Give her a big bottle just before bed, and then a dream feed maybe at about 11 and then another at say 3am if you think she needs one. She's old enough to drink enough if she is genuinely hungry. You can try to phase these out over time.

I'll be honest, it's not a quick solution, you need to be patient, consistent and accept that it'll be a 1-2 weeks to see an improvement.

Just a thought, hope it helps. Keep us posted.

Sympathy PhDiva - this kind of waking sounds familiar to me. I am also of the no CC camp and the only way of getting ds back to sleep if he wakes has always been to bf. All I can say is that at one year old he is still pretty young, and as my ds has got older the stretches of continuous sleep have just gradually increased. We started co-sleeping when he was 6mo because I just couldn't keep getting up to him. I slept much better once we got used to the new arrangement, I hardly noticed him feeding in the night then and I wouldn't say it encouraged him to feed more - if he wants a feed he wants a feed! How long did you try co-sleeping for? I only ask because initially I didn't sleep well doing it, it was only once I got used to it that things improved. FWIW feeding him more during the day and all those other things never made a difference to his night-time sleep, I just have a wakeful, restless child

Hello PhDiva. Just logged on and saw this thread. No advice I'm afraid but you have my sympathy as you just described my DS almost exactly. He is 11 months old and also wakes every hour or so during the night for no apparent reason and always has.

I have co-slept since he was born as it was the only way to get any sleep and we still do as I can't get back to sleep if I have to get out of bed with him. I have tried just cuddling him back to sleep. Sometimes it works but mostly he just gets more and more frustrated as he can't get back to sleep so I end up feeding him just to get back to sleep. Am therefore frequently woken 7 times a night or so and DH can't really help so it is up to me. Am back at work in 2 weeks time and dreading it as just seem to manage to function OK now.

I have also wondered about the food thing but can't force feed him! Have also wondered if there is any underlying cause or pain but have asked doctor and health visitor and they say no. They reckon it is just behavioural and that I must just let him cry. i am not happy to do this as can't rationalise what that will teach him as he seems to try so hard to get back to sleep anyway and just cant. He has always been very active and seems to find relaxing into sleep a difficult thing to do. I keep hoping he will grow out of it and each night I try to be optimistic that this may be the night that he manages even 3 hours without waking! I too am envious of the other MNs and my friends who have babies that wake 2 or 3 times and would be so happy if my DS only did that! I know people think (even if they do not say it) that it is something I ahve done that has made him this way and he may now be in a habit but I really beleieve he was just born a bad sleeper and that we are unlucky in this respect. On the up side he is a gorgeous bright and healthy baby but I think as a family we could all use some more kip!

Good luck and please post again if you find any miraculous cure! Likewise if I do.

it's habit. He's got into the habit of needing to be fed/walked back to sleep, and thinks this is all part of what you need to get back to sleep.

Personally, I'd get tough, as in start not feeding him when he wakes up. I'd probably give him a little pat and put back down, and then tough it out for increasingly long periods until he'd got the general idea. Or you could try giving water in a bottle.

Not sure whether this is controlled crying or not. But it's habit for sure, rather than some actual need for milk, though you could try adding a porridgey meal at supper time to try and keep him going a bit longer.

Hi I totally sympathize, I got to a point of desperation with my DS, But I think we are now getting somewhere at 9 months old. I learned all the sleep routines, and a mixture of them started working. When he was a little younger Shhh - Pat worked sometimes to get him from feeding to sleep. But he was still waking often. In the end I tried a watered down CC, 3 mins, 4 mins, 5 mins. I just kept going in to wind him and put him back down. I have been trying not to feed him solids later than 4.30 -5. bath 6.15 and bed by 7 Sometimes he falls asleep bfeeding. CC is hard but what I told myself is it is for his benefit. And it is he has been sleeping better for last couple weeks. And is happier for it. He only cries when he wakes if he is windy, but once he's ok I can put him down awake. he cries for a minute then sleeps.
All I can say is it will get better but you need to teach him to be able to settle himself.
When I was first stopping night feeds I knew he was ready because he would only feed a few minutes then sleep. I'd feed him at 7 then refused until around 11-12. When I first refused I just laid on my bed and shh-patted, stroked and held him close, he got the message quick, and then wasn't that bothered. It needed to be pitch black, and he learned to fall back asleep without it. Once he learned to fall asleep without BFing. I was ready to try to get him to sleep in his cot. I was also desperate because he was getting mobile. Anyway now he still wakes up but today I heard him stir on the monitor but settle himself again. But when I go to bed he joins me. I haven't tackled that one yet. It is like he is only half asleep till I go bed.
But I get a good 6 hours in a row most nights, and I felt until recently that that would never happen. I would suggest you try cc, even if it is 2 mins 2 mins 2 mins. Naps are important too over tiredness always affects his nights. (I'm dealing with naps now.)
Anyway Good luck. Your doing a great job, I know how hard it is waking every 45 mins. And it is just me and my boy so I have no breaks.
Ez x