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Original poster

5 year old night waking

9 replies

Dimpous · 19/09/2022 00:30

Absolutely desperate and feeling broken. Sorry it's long, it's late and I am so lost.

DD5 has always been a great sleeper, from 6 weeks old she has slept through. We have had a consistent bedtime routine her whole little life. No issues with falling asleep at bedtime.

In June she started waking a night and crying, no reason, no nightmares, no physical pain, nothing she is worrying about. I thought it was likely the lead up to the end of reception. We powered through of returning her to bed, often sitting in her room until she fell asleep. But then she started waking when we left. We then gave in and let her have a sleepover in our room (on mattress on the floor, we do not allow kids to sleep in the bed). But then she began to wake demanding to sleep in our room. So in august we stood firm and she hasn't slept in our bed since.

She seems to have got into a habit of waking at 10:30pm and it can take up to an hour to get her back off. If she just woke up and laid there awake and I had to sit there I could cope but she "cries" (howles) so loud she wakes her 17months old brother up.

We have tried everything, being gentle and patient, pleading, rewards, taking things away (iPad privileges), shouting, not talking to her. Pillow sprays, new bedding, white nice, audio stores. Taken to the GP nothing physically wrong.

Nothing is working. I'm now so dreading every single night and the battle I can't sleep. I'm at risk of redundancy at work (she doesn't know this) and honestly me and DH are exhausted. Before I try and find the money for a sleep consultant does anyone have any ideas. Please!!

OP posts:
LapinR0se · 19/09/2022 06:12

I am not sure how much a sleep consultant could help in these circumstances as it seems psychological.
basic sleep hygiene can always help (no screens after dinner, nice full tummy going to bed, toilet before bed etc) but I’m sure you are doing all that already.
what exactly happens at 10.30?

Grapefaced · 19/09/2022 06:19

How much time do you spend with her in the day? She might want that attention/reassurance.

I'm usually against kids in parents beds (it is usually my golden rule). But if she will actually sleep like that can you bring her in for everyone's sake? (My own kids mess about and don't sleep which is why I have the rule!).

Is she scared of anything? My 7YO is terrified of monsters. Needed to sleep with 5 million lights on. Then we moved him into the top bunk of a bunk bed and he's happier now. Apparently the monsters won't get him in the top bunk!

Original poster
Dimpous · 19/09/2022 21:59

LapinR0se · 19/09/2022 06:12

I am not sure how much a sleep consultant could help in these circumstances as it seems psychological.
basic sleep hygiene can always help (no screens after dinner, nice full tummy going to bed, toilet before bed etc) but I’m sure you are doing all that already.
what exactly happens at 10.30?

So sorry I have just seen this reply. You're right we do all of that. Dinner, chill time playing, bath (only 2-3 times a week due to ezcema) and teeth, story together (one does DS and one does DD) and then bed, we sit with her until she drifts off which takes minutes.

At 10:30 she will wake up, start crying, loudly, and it's not a "real" cry if you know what I mean. We ask what is wrong and she says she doesn't know, doesn't need loo etc nothing wrong. She asks us to take her back to bed (most of the time by the time we've got to her room she is out of bed). We give her a kiss and and cuddle and count to three before we leave. Then she just starts crying loudly until we come back, if we leave her she just gets louder and louder until we give in and go back in.

I will have to call doctors in the morning, I am sure if we can break the habit for just a few nights she will realise she can still self soothe and go back to sleep.

OP posts:
Original poster
Dimpous · 19/09/2022 22:04

Grapefaced · 19/09/2022 06:19

How much time do you spend with her in the day? She might want that attention/reassurance.

I'm usually against kids in parents beds (it is usually my golden rule). But if she will actually sleep like that can you bring her in for everyone's sake? (My own kids mess about and don't sleep which is why I have the rule!).

Is she scared of anything? My 7YO is terrified of monsters. Needed to sleep with 5 million lights on. Then we moved him into the top bunk of a bunk bed and he's happier now. Apparently the monsters won't get him in the top bunk!

It varies day to day, we see her for at least 2hrs before school in the morning, then she goes to the childminders after school 4 nights a week but we collect her about 1.5-2hrs before bed. And then all weekend she is with us both. This has been her routine since about 10months so that hasn't changed.

I'm usually against kids in parents beds (it is usually my golden rule). Me too and we did, but then she just refused to go in her room even at bedtime and I just don't want to break that golden rule forever, I really believe we need the separate sleeping space.

Is she scared of anything?** She went through a phase earlier in the year of sleeping with the light on because she was scared of the dark and then one night said "I don't want the light on" and hasn't wanted it since even when offered. She does have a very dim night light and one in the hall so that if she does come into us at night it isn't too dark on the way.

OP posts:
unsure144 · 19/09/2022 22:07

To be honest I'd be hesitant to leave her to 'self soothe'. There's clearly something causing distress.

Have you tried keeping her up later and moving bedtime back? Maybe it would stop her from waking?

Silverbirch2 · 19/09/2022 22:16

I would also try a later bedtime. How long does she sleep before 10:30? 1 REM? It seems you're doing everything, I would just try to break the cycle, jeep her up really late (Friday?) Then make a note if she does wake how long from sfallibg asleep? If same amount of time I would head to Dr. For further referral. Hopefully if you alter her sleep pattern and bedtime she will get out of habit. My ds 6 goes through cycles of waking 1.5 hours after falling asleep if not that tired. Nothing wrong and he doesn't know what wakes him. He can now get back to sleep alone but we had musical beds and howling to wake dd and get all the attention. What happens if you go in and tell her to read/ colour/ listen to music then you leave her? Sounds like the howling is because she knows she could potentially wake brother and a parents fear of that can be manipulated at night!

Original poster
Dimpous · 19/09/2022 22:39

unsure144 · 19/09/2022 22:07

To be honest I'd be hesitant to leave her to 'self soothe'. There's clearly something causing distress.

Have you tried keeping her up later and moving bedtime back? Maybe it would stop her from waking?

Sorry my response doesn't read right we don't leave her to self soothe now, I mean back in the day when she slept she must have occasionally woke like we all do and just turned over and went back to sleep. She seems to have lost that skill at the moment.

We have tried earlier bed, later bed, she is an early riser 5:45 always has been; seems to make very little difference. She woke at half 9 tonight so that was a bit earlier than usual.

OP posts:
Original poster
Dimpous · 19/09/2022 22:42

Silverbirch2 · 19/09/2022 22:16

I would also try a later bedtime. How long does she sleep before 10:30? 1 REM? It seems you're doing everything, I would just try to break the cycle, jeep her up really late (Friday?) Then make a note if she does wake how long from sfallibg asleep? If same amount of time I would head to Dr. For further referral. Hopefully if you alter her sleep pattern and bedtime she will get out of habit. My ds 6 goes through cycles of waking 1.5 hours after falling asleep if not that tired. Nothing wrong and he doesn't know what wakes him. He can now get back to sleep alone but we had musical beds and howling to wake dd and get all the attention. What happens if you go in and tell her to read/ colour/ listen to music then you leave her? Sounds like the howling is because she knows she could potentially wake brother and a parents fear of that can be manipulated at night!

I would also try a later bedtime. How long does she sleep before 10:30? I would say between 3.5/4hrs depending on bedtime (usually between half 6-half 7)

What happens if you go in and tell her to read/ colour/ listen to music then you leave her?we have tried this and audio books and it just seems to wake her up more.

Sounds like the howling is because she knows she could potentially wake brother and a parents fear of that can be manipulated at night! This is 100% it she knows that we will respond as if he wakes that's a whole other ball game!

Thanks for your replies though I will try keeping her up until 8 or Friday and see what happens!

OP posts:
notsostylish · 06/04/2024 00:36

How did this work out for you op?
I have a 4yo who is doing exactly the same thing, she wakes then comes and gets into our bed knowing fine well her 1 year old sister is sleeping so if we put her back to her bed she screams and wakes her up then we have 2 crying children in the middle of the night. We have an array of reasons she is awake, usually a bad dream, a sore (insert random body part), a noise, she's thirsty. I've tried everything and I've no idea why she's waking.

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