My 4 month old hates sleeping. What do I do?

[CinnamonHamster]

Hi all, firstly I know he probably doesn't hate sleeping but he truly fights it as much as he physically can and I'm at a loss. He is almost 19 weeks and barely sleeps - tbh he has always been a bit of a rubbish sleeper. He is EBF and has reflux - was recently advised by HV and GP to start him on baby rice as the reflux is awful but it made him constipated so still reviewing that.

I am using the Huckleberry app to help track naps, keep him angled during supervised day naps to help reflux, make sure to follow any sleepy cues and start putting to sleep about 1h30 after last wake up, have implemented a bedtime routine and set bedtime block depending on sleepiness and day naps (7.30-9). I make sure he is fed, comfy and dry too before winding him down.

He refuses point blank to sleep in his pram flat or slanted upright at any time, he will sleep in his carseat (although this only started recently) but only if I'm there to comfort him and will not go asleep for his dad (or anyone else) at all.

Overnight he sleeps in a next to me and sleeps in 2-3 hour slots max (dwindles to 45min - 1hr slots as the night goes on). When he wakes it takes about 45 minutes to get him back to sleep whether he has boob or not. In the day, it is a battle to get him to nap - he woke just after 8am today and his first nap started at 12.10pm. He never falls asleep on his own and seems to go 0-100 on sleep cues and tiredness.

Everytime his eyes started drifting shut he would start screaming and slamming his legs and scratching at his face. I tried for about half an hour then left the room with him for a little bit of fresh air, talked to him (like awake times but calm and quiet) then went back and tried again but he just started almost panicking every time his eyes shut. We keep the bedroom for sleep only so it's a calm environment.

I'm totally at a loss what to do. Every daytime nap is a battle and nighttimes aren't great - I'm concerned as on the app his daily total sleep is about 12 hours sometimes less. He just seems to not want to sleep but he must need it surely a morning wake window of 4 hours isn't good for him and I can't just go with the flow because he can't fall asleep by himself.

Any advice appreciated!

PS should say he only sleeps with white noise and in a darkened room / with car seat hood pulled over in car.

I think the huckleberry app is way off. Their awake windows are super short. It sounds like he doesn't have the sleep pressure.

On a more personal note I think 4/5 month olds are the pits. They need loads of sleep but just don't want to sleep! Too interested in things but can then get easily ratty and tired. Their sleep cycles are changing and it's bloody awful!
I started a bit of pick up put down at this and taught baby to self settle. Rocking and patting and feeding stopped working so did a bit of gentle sleep training over a few weeks (night time). However, my LO only napped in sling until 6.5 months old. Now she's 7.5 months old and can do two long naps in cot and self settles but it's only through perseverance that we have got here. She wakes up 1-4 times a night though still even though she can self settle. Urgh.

That wired behaviour is due to overtiredness and possibly not warm or comfortable enough
What’s he wearing?
routine for 4 month old:
7am wake and milk feed
8.30-10am nap - wake at 10am no matter how long the nap has been
10.30 milk feed
12-2 nap - wake at 2 no matter how long the nap has been
2.30 milk feed
4.30-5pm short nap in pram or car
5.30 milk feed
6pm bath
6.30 milk feed
7pm bed
10pm dream feed

Hi, he wears a vest or sleepsuit and appropriate tog sleep bag for the room temperature. I check his back to make sure he isn't sweaty or cold. He's breastfed on demand and still feeds every 2-3 hours even if it's just for 5/10 minutes so a strict routine doesn't really work for us.

Thank you! I was using Huckleberry to track his sleep with the hope I'd see some kind of patterns emerging from his natural nap times / bedtime but they're all over the place - we tried a sling now and again until he was 14 weeks and from 6 weeks onwards he just pushed against me in it and cried. Because he is fed on demand i don't know how well sleep training with a schedule would work for us too. Glad your LO is settling better now!

You can absolutely have a routine with EBF babies.
you can put a vest, sleep suit and grobag on to make sure he is not cold.

My EBF is 5.5 months and at around 3.5 months started sleeping awfully and still is

following in the hope you get some good advice. I even bought a couple of sleep books as I was sick of reading the same stuff online that wasn’t helping haha.

wakes far too often at night and fights naps. Hoping once his teeth come through it gets better (pretty sure they are due soon as soo much drool and lots of chomping teethers recently)

There is no magic wand. What works is routine, absolute consistency and a good sleep environment with sustainable sleep associations.

Please don’t sleep train, there’s no need. Babies at this age wake a lot, it’s hard but it’s normal. Bedsharing safely and feeding lying down saved me, if you don’t really have to wake to feed it’s much easier.
This is also a typically tricky time for sleep as they’re developing very quickly. I’d honestly throw the app out, your baby isn’t a computer with an algorithm they’re a human and they’re all different with different sleep needs.
That said, your baby sounds like he’s really uncomfortable, have you considered a cows milk protein allergy?

@BuffaloCauliflower I breastfeed and cannot feed lying down. My let down is too strong and my boobs are huge and baby hates it. She needs a big burp afterwards and it's incredibly uncomfortable for both of us. Co-sleeping and breastfeeding does now work for a lot of people.
I don't know where people get off telling people not to sleep train.

@sunflowerandivy sleep training is damaging to babies, and almost always unnecessary and based on incorrect ideas about baby sleep and development. It should only be used in cases of extreme difficulty where the health of the parents is at risk. As far as I’m concerned it’s in the same department as telling parents they shouldn’t hit their children.

There is no evidence that sleep training is damaging.

@BuffaloCauliflower CMPA was ruled out early on when his reflux was diagnosed. I did 4 weeks totally dairy free and nothing changed - GP said it was unlikely anyway as he has never had a rash / skin symptoms, no respiratory symptoms and no persistent poo problems but I did the elimination diet to be sure. I use the app purely to track his naps so it's in a nice graph for me to read to see if he has any natural trends (he doesn't) I don't use the predicted nap times it suggests.

I'm the same as @sunflowerandivy I have massive boobs and my nipples aren't always pointing towards the baby lying down they end up pointing down more often 😂so lying down breastfeeding didn't work for us.

@Lullabies2Paralyze it's really hard going and totally day by day as well. Last night he kept rolling onto his tummy and crying to be flipped back over too - first time he has done that repeatedly at night. Hope we get some different perspectives or mums that have gone through it!

A rolled up muslin under your boob can help support large boobs lying down, and pulling baby lower so they’re looking up to you more could help. With the right adjustments most boobs will be able to feed lying down, I was a 32HH most of the time I was feeding DS. The bigger and stronger they get the easier it is too

@BuffaloCauliflower absolutely outrageous. Sleep training equates to hitting a child, you say? God, I've heard it all now.

@sunflowerandivy both assert an adults will unnaturally on a child. Both assume developmentally inappropriate behaviour should be enforced. Both are likely to cause long term harm to well-being and damage attachment to the parent. Yep, definitely in the same pile.
Sleep changes are a developmental process. Babies are meant to wake at night and waking at night and needing parental help to get back to sleep is normal well into the toddler years, and beyond for some children. Babies don’t need to be trained to sleep, it’s a biological function of the body and they’ll wake less/sleep longer when they’re ready. We don’t walk train or speech train, they develop the skills in their own time.

@sunflowerandivy out of interest what did you do to help teach your little one to self settle? Our little one gets himself all worked up at bedtime, I think it would help if he was able to relax himself a bit, as well as us helping soothe him.

@Lawyermama88 I did pick up / put down. It's an established technique which is a gentle method (cuddle when crying). Then shush pat. So I was always there soothing them in their cot. @BuffaloCauliflower thinks this equates to child abuse, which is ridiculous.

Thanks -@sunflowerandivy. We'll definitely give it a try!

What kind of things are you doing in the day? It sounds like you are both spending a lot of time in the bedroom trying to get him to nap?

What if you left it a bit longer before trying to start the next nap? It might be that he naps at the same / a similar time but with less stress in between.

Also, my DS is about the same age and naps really badly if he's bored. I find taking him out to a baby group, for a long walk in the buggy (sitting up so he can see things) or on a bus ride really help to tire him out mentally as well as physically so that he's ready for a nap when his body needs it, rather than getting frustrated and fighting it.

That said, he's just come out of a period of being totally cranky about everything all the time, so sometimes nothing works!