Is sleep training our only option??

[BonesOfWhatYouBelieve]

DD2 is 4 months and her sleep has always been awful. She will only sleep when held, this is for naps and overnight. She also will not co-sleep lying next to me, even if feeding. She has to be held.
DH and I have been sleeping in shifts and just continuously trying to get her down in her crib as we assumed it would get better (even just a little bit) but it is lasting too long. We need something to change as it’s becoming dangerous, with us falling asleep with her on us.
When awake, she’s a very happy content baby who will happily be put down (on her back) and watch us so I don’t think there’s any reflux etc.

What can we do?? Obviously I do not want to do any sleep training this young, but if the only alternative is us falling asleep on the sofa with her on our chest, that’s obviously not something that can continue. I’m absolutely desperate and she doesn’t seem to be making any progress at all. I will take any and all advice but we’ve tried so many things already!

I wouldn't suggest sleep training this you g or at all tbh. Leaving a baby to cry only works because they realise you're not going to help them.

My 11 month old is an awful sleeper. Still wakes up about 5/6 times a night and won't go in his own bed. In the early days I slept 9-12, partner 12-6, then me again 6-9. (Breastfed).

Not even sleep training advocates do it at 4 months to my knowledge. This is likely the 4 months regression. My advice is to check safe co sleeping and do that. Its the best way of everyone getting the maximum sleep at this point.

I know, I know, and I really am in bits over the thought. But I don’t think it’s a regression because it’s always been like this. And she won’t co sleep, she won’t sleep next to me. I co slept with DD1 and would do it again if it worked for DD2.

I would look into some very gentle sleep training, yes. Just look into it. There's no obligation to do it, but see if you can find a method that feels gentle enough and would work for your setup.

Sleep training is not synonymous with leaving a a baby to cry and I wish ill informed people would stop making these comments.

Does she sleep in the buggy or the car?

If you can afford it i'd get a sleep consultant in to see what they advise. There will almost certainly be something that can be done to help you achieve better sleep.

It doesn’t have to be sleep training. My DS was like this. He is our second child and our first had gone in the cot no problem, so we were not expecting to have this issue. I nearly lost my mind with tiredness.

This is what we did. Essentially accepting that we were creating the association between sleep and being held. We just agreed that we would stop holding him so we started to put him down in the next to me crib once he had fallen asleep. We agreed that we would keep doing it even if he woke up x100000. We didn’t ever leave him to cry but we did pause for a few seconds when he cried out to see if he would settle.

it isn’t recommended but we also used a dockatot to help with the transition and a hot water bottle to warm the cot (it was winter). Then gradually stopped using these. I wouldn’t say they were necessary though. The first week or so he woke up a lot. Every 45 mins. Eventually he started going longer stretches. We just agreed that we would stick to putting him down within 15 mins of falling asleep until he got used to it. If he cried, we would picK him up and start again.

we got there in the end. It took a few weeks and then he would go 2-3 hours before waking and it was enough to survive. DS is 11 months now and has been sleeping through the night most nights for around 2 months. We’ve never sleep trained or left him to cry.

Does she sleep in the buggy or the car?

Car - yes but will wake when we take her out of the seat, or take the seat out of the car.

Pram - sometimes for short periods she does, but very hit and miss and takes a long time. I’d be happy to walk for ages if it would get her to sleep, but more often than not it doesn’t.

This sounds so tough 😫 I don't know how your doing it!
My initial thought was reflux/tummy issues but sounds like you've explored that.

I'd probably bring in the professionals, a night nanny occasionally over the next month or so? Or a sleep consultant.

My boy was an awful sleeper and we are due number 2 soon. I'm dreading the sleep deprivation and thinking we will get a night nanny once or twice a week between 6-12 week period to get us on a good track and routine.

Has anyone had any success with sleep consultants? I've always been a bit sceptical of them, possibly unfairly.

Ferber method (highly recommend reading the book), but not till 6 months.

Literally life changing on the first night, and there wasn’t much crying involved at all.

My DS goes in his cot, alone, wriggles around and is usually asleep before I get downstairs, and sleeps all night now. At 6 months he was waking twice for feeds, which we reduced and then stopped by 8 months.

He’s 16 months now and friends with similar aged babies that didn’t sleep train spend ages getting the baby to sleep and are still up several times in the night.

I actually think it was a blessing that he was such an awful sleeper for the first 6 months because it forced us into it (like many I was against the idea at first). It’s worth reading the book, even if you don’t like the idea - and then just count down till 6 months.

It's totally against all the safe sleeping guidelines, but I put DS1 on his tummy when he transfered into the cot. About 50% of the time, I then got a 40 min sleep cycle out if him, and 10% of the time he would sleep for over an hour. The rest, his eyes pinged opoe in about 3 seconds, but it was a massive improvement. We were like you, getting into dangerous situations due to complete lack of sleep.

My DD was the same - had to sleep on me. Next to me wasn’t good enough! She is a tummy sleeper now. Once she learnt to roll she flipped onto her tummy and slept a lot better for it. Until then I used a sleepyhead which saved my sanity. The sleep was still crap but I could put her down and she didn’t immediately wake up. I hope it improves for you, OP. It’s absolutely awful when you’re in the thick of it.

@littlelovely what age did you do that? I think we need to be firmer about putting her down but during the day I give in because I don't want to make her overtired for nighttime. And overnight we give in because she gets worked up and can wake our 3 year old so she always ends up back on us.

Sleep training doesn’t mean just leaving them to cry. It just means helping them to get to sleep on their own without whatever sleep crutch they have (being held in your case)

You can try gentle things at this age like shush pat which could really help. Or rocking her in the cot, picking her up every time she gets upset but putting her down when she’s calm until she falls asleep.

Controlled crying is recommended only
to be used from 6 months and doesn’t just work because they “learn you won’t come back” and whatever crap gets spouted on threads like these.

What you are describing IS sleep training!!

Have you tried habit stacking?

So as well as holding baby to sleep you might pat them or rock them or white noise. These can become comforts too and then you can try to remove the original comfort I.e. you holding her.

Look up Lyndsey Hookway and habit stacking, it could help.

I would not recommend sleep training.

Have you tried swaddling?

picking her up every time she gets upset but putting her down when she’s calm until she falls asleep.

This is what we do now basically, but she never falls asleep in the cot (even with shushing/patting, rocking). She sometimes falls asleep the second we pick her up, but always wakes when put down, and then with each cycle of pick up/put down, she gets more and more upset and it takes longer and longer to calm her, before we eventually give up. But I guess we need to persist? But we’ve persisted for hours before and still not had her asleep in the cot.
I woke up on the sofa this morning after accidentally falling asleep with her on my chest, which was awful as I know it’s so dangerous. I guess the upset of the pick up/put down method is better than what could happen if I fall asleep with her. I just feel like such a failure letting it get this bad.

As others have said sleep training doesn't have to involved leaving baby to cry alone.
I started gentle sleep training with mine at 8ish weeks and also work with families using these methods.
Would usually start with some habit stacking and just carry on with your usual settling but always in a dark room with white noise (on v loud) and add in patting her bum. Then one new routine is established start placing her in the cot and patting her bum, I would always pick up if they were distressed and just try again once calm.

Don’t feel bad, you haven’t done anything wrong. Their little baby brains are just programmed that way when they’re young. Some babies can just sleep, some can’t.

Mine would only sleep on me in the day, and woke up every half hour at night. I tried for hours and hours picking up and putting down when he was 5 months. Didn’t work.

It does get much better at 6 months though, they change so fast (although I appreciate it seems like an eternity when you’re in it).

Surely any method you implement, including habit stacking, IS sleep training.

We used a sleepy head inside the cot with my daughter. I wasn’t at all keen on doing so as they aren’t recommended but she wanted to be held on my chest all night and there were a few times I fell asleep with her in the bed and on the sofa and I just decided to weigh up what I thought would be more dangerous. Also being extremely sleep deprived was affecting my mental health and affecting my older child. My husband is a shift worker so a lot of the time it all fell to me and it was hard to cope.

@BonesOfWhatYouBelieve I think around 4-5 months. Memory is hazy. I think I was on the verge of a breakdown with so little sleep. Around the same time we started 7pm bedtime and a proper little routine.

Totally agree with PP - all the suggestions here are ‘sleep training’ - not all sleep training is controlled crying.

Sorry yes you're right, with my thread title I meant things more like Ferber etc because we already do things like the put down/pick up

No, we haven't tried this but it makes sense. We already use white noise but I will look more into this. Thanks!