16w old baby screams before every nap

[iloveorange]

Hello! Not sure if anyone will be able to give any wise advice, but just wanted to share in case anyone else has experienced this?

DD is 16 weeks and has been fighting sleep (especially naps) for the last 6 weeks or so. Before then we used to get her down to sleep by cradling and rocking/bouncing on a birth ball, dummy in her mouth, singing, etc. It could easily takes us 30 mins, and she would also struggle to stay asleep (even in our arms), she also screamed but eventually settled.

It wasn't ideal, but at least we knew that with time and patience she would get there. At some point, however, she realised that the whole cradling thing leads to sleeping, and that she's not interested, so she will scream herself awake. This means that every time her eyelids drop, she kicks and screams. Sometimes she will start screaming the moment you cradle her, and stop when you change positions, but even then she's discarding more and more positions as all of them eventually soothe her?! If you put her on a bed or cot, she will scream as well, although eventually she might stop... until her eyelids drop again.

Today she spent 3 hours crying like this, until eventually I took her in my arms once again and held her tightly while slowly squatting up and down and singing until she stopped screaming and finally fell asleep (I had tried doing this before, but without success). She was so tired she could hardly open her eyes and her lids were reddened and puffy (she looks fine now she's rested). We had a similar episode yesterday.

She is temperamental and hard work in general, but this has everyone in our family utterly shocked, including those who have raised multiple children.

FWIW, nights are not so bad, she wakes up about 3 times, but getting her down to sleep takes forever and bedtime doesn't start any earlier than 8, oftentimes past 10, then she's ready for the day by 6-7, I'd say she wakes up for a feed every 3 hours, and then for a cuddle an hour after her second feed. It's safe to say she usually gors back to sleep quickly though (some nights have been rough, but generally speaking not so bad compared with daytime).

I sometimes feel like she naps longer than she used to, but she's nowhere near the suggested guidelines AND I can tell it's not enough because she starts whining after about an hour and a half of awake time.

Oh, and she's also nowhere near the minimum amount of formula she should be getting in 24h. She's still on 150mls bottles but oftentimes will only drink 70-80mls, we have increased to 180mls today for the odd times when she'll have 150mls and want more, but it is going to be a waste of formula powder. She's 7kg and a large baby, already outgrowing 6m clothes. I don't know how, but she's still putting on weight. Could the smaller amounts be interfering with her sleep pattern?

Because I know a carrier/wrap will be suggested, you should also know that she hates those with a passion and will also scream until she reluctantly accepts her fate (or I give up and release her). She does fall asleep in it quite often, but I'm in a hot country right now so it's not an option anyway.

Bumping up because things are only getting worse and she's 19 weeks as of today.

Currently her awake window is less than an hour long (30-45 mins), after that she will start with the whining and crying and can't be settled, no playing, singing to her, etc, will work. The only thing that might distract her for a few minutes is looking at herself in the mirror. Anyway, she will start showing signs of tiredness (rubbing her eyes, yawning, puffy eyelids, etc) but she doesn't want to sleep. When I say 'does not want', I really mean it. It's not that she struggles to fall asleep, it's that when she's clearly falling asleep (droopy eyelids, relaxed body), she will startle herself awake by all means necessary. Just now we spent about an hour before she finally succumbed, and it took both my and my husband's efforts to get there. For a bit I had her sitting on my lap with a dummy in her mouth while I was reading my book out loud to her, and she was calm and just chilling until she realised she was falling asleep and started screaming and kicking. She had a 45 minutes nap this morning and now she's down for the second nap of the day. They are usually on the shorter end, but that'd be ok if she was happy and content during the time she's awake. Because she's not, I find myself getting her down for a nap 4-5 times a day BEFORE bedtime, which is ridiculous, especially given how long it takes us to get her to sleep (30+ minutes); I feel like I spend my days fighting with her. She's also on the 91st percentile for weight and the 99th for length, and my back is starting to resent carrying her for such long periods of time.

I'm pretty sure her issue is that she does not want to sleep, (rather than she can't fall asleep), maybe because of a fear of missing out on stuff or I don't know. I don't think it's fear of the cot - if anything, she screams more frantically when she wakes up in our arms than when she wakes up in her cot. She doesn't hate the cot either, she can happily hang out in her cot for about 10-15 minutes without a cry (provided she's not hungry or sleepy). If you put her in the cot when she has to sleep, she will be happy in it until she gets bored and then starts screaming (I suppose she doesn't know how to fall asleep by herself, which I believe is pretty standard in babies this young).

I have tried carrying her around in a wrap and in a baby carrier and she's not a fan - she merely tolerates either after screaming the house down for a few minutes. She does fall asleep in it eventually, but even that takes her 15+ minutes and it will require keeping a dummy in her mouth because the moment she releases it she becomes unsettled again. She can't fall asleep in the pram either, and now our arms are often not enough. She will scream regardless of what we do or where she is.

Surely she can't be the only baby to ever behave like this?

OK. That's a lot. Apologies if I repeat or go over too much.

Regarding formula food - she will eat what she needs. I use to stress how little my lo had and she was always below the recommendation. She is highest percentile for both height and weight. So don't worry on that one. Still today highest height and dropped a percentile but she is thriving and eats a lot of food. Think it must be the running loops round me.

Naps. Your doing a lot of different things. Pick one and stick to it. Not meant to sound mean. But too much variation so bubba doesn't know if she's coming or going or the signal for sleep.

I read somewhere if lo is rubbing eyes etc. They are overtired, so I would say that. In regards to recommendation re sleep needs. My lo is always on low side too. Throw the book out so to speak.

Naps. My advice is lo rolling? If so a swaddle may not be appropriate. I would do dark room. Pink noise. Dummy and hold lo nice and tight.

Shorten wake windows. If need be contact nap for a few days catch up on that sleep debt.

Also sit down and hold lo. No standing. It will break your back

Gosh, I really feel for you, you must be absolutely desperate. My Dd is now a teenager so my memory of this is a bit fuzzy but I had similar problems with her as a baby. Our health visitor helped diagnose post nasal drip: this made her stomach too acidic which was 100 times worse when she lay down so she'd scream when we tried to get her to sleep and pretty quickly would scream when she went near the cot because she knew what was coming. It also meant she'd only have just enough milk to take the edge off her hunger because the acid made feeding so uncomfortable. She also suffered from reflux which had the same effect. I used to prop her up on pillows and the GP prescribed medicine. BUT I don't think it went on for as long as you're describing. Is there a HV you can ask?

Will she sleep on you?

There is nothing wrong with feeding to sleep. My baby is 13 weeks and will only nap on me after being breastfed. If I tried to put her down in her Moses basket without contact and a feed, she’d scream her head off too. Can you offer a feed and then let her drift off afterwards?

I find that after a couple of contact naps- she’s then a lot more compliant and will drift off in her bouncer or can be transferred to her Moses basket easily. Such young babies don’t have object permanence established and can’t just be popped down for a nap. They need help. It’s normal.

This sounds very similar to my little girl who is now 8 months old. I used to rock her in my arms while she was screaming and I was crying, for every single nap and bedtime. It was honestly horrendous and i just got to the point where I thought ‘why the hell am I doing this, she clearly hates it?’ I started putting her down in her cot awake, patting her bum and tickling her face. I’d pick her up occasionally to soothe her if needed and put her back down. 4 months later I just put her down in her cot with her comforter and she self settles and I very very rarely have to go in to her, and she started sleeping through the night at 5 and a half months. A lot of people are against CIO and tbh that isn’t what we did because we patted her bum etc but if she was going to cry in my arms anyway what difference does it make? She still now will not be ‘held like a baby’ and has her bottle on her own lying down!

Hi! Thanks everyone for the suggestions, I will try to answer everyone's questions but might forget some.

• I have tried the white noise, sitting in a pitch dark room in silence with her, holding her sitting down (she goes bananas) ot standing up still (still goes bananas). The only thing that has ever worked has been singing, pacing and bouncing for very long periods of time.

• Her awake window is already super short! If I make it any shorter it will just mean we spend even more time getting her to sleep

• She does not feed to sleep, never has. Not because we chose not to though! When I used to bf her as a newborn, she would sometimes drift to sleep and wake up on my lap 5-10 minutes later, oftentimes screaming. She will often sleep on the bottle during the night (feeds twice during the night, but usually goes back to sleep right away. The times she hasn't it's nightmarish).

• She already contact naps a lot of the time. If we're busy we'll try to put her down in the cot, but more often than not we can't be bothered 'taking the risk' of her waking up again, so we keep her on our laps for as long as she sleeps.

• We've seen GP, HV, private paediatrician and even an osteopath (out of desperation). Basically, everyone says (even the osteopath) that she's a very strong, healthy baby with an equally strong personality. HV agreed that she's 'a difficult baby' based on an episode she saw at the clinic where DD cried inconsolably for 15 minutes while being held because we had removed her clothes (which usually she has no issue with anyway). She didn't stop, she just left with DH and eventually calmed down outside.

• The problem with CC or PUPD is that you are meant to comfort them in some way before you put them back in the cot/leave the room. Holding her for 5-10 minutes won't comfort her, let alone patting her for a bit or talking to her.

• She's also ridiculously loud!

I've had exactly the same thoughts! But whenever I have tried doing this she keeps screaming until I give up. Somehow it feels wrong to have her cry not my arms, even though DH insists she cries more when being held (and he might very well be right)

Hi,

honestly this was my thought as well but one day I just couldn’t take it anymore. Do you think maybe you could increase the wake windows and see if that works? She might just be a baby with lower sleep needs! I spoke with my health visitor at the time and she told me that ‘some baby’s will always cry themselves to sleep as it’s how they soothe’ which actually made me feel a lot better but now she doesn’t cry like that at all. Does she have anything else to comfort her other than a dummy? If not, could you maybe start to introduce something? We put her ‘silky’ into bed with from birth and now she doesn’t sleep without it.

Do lullaby’s work? Can you put one on your face instead of singing to her?

Also, the bum patting/PUPD won’t work in one night and won’t instantly comfort her, you need to be consistent with what you’re doing and run with it! X

She used to have longer wake windows, but as of late she starts to show signs of being tired 30-45 minutes after waking up. She will rub her eyes, yawn and basically whine and cry, not engage in play, not smile, etc. I assumed she was going through a growth spurt and needs the extra rest (not that she will actually take it). She's also gone from feeding every 4 hours to feeding every 3, and now she's sometimes feeding every 2. It does feel like a literal regression!

I second the putting her down but not leaving her method. Singing, patting, talking. I would sometimes bounce the cot mattress gently. My back paid a price, but it was a million times better than having a writing screaming child in my arms who wouldn't be soothed. That baby ended up sleeping brilliantly and was always soothed by my voice so if he had a nightmare etc I'd go in and start talking and instantly soothed. We also used swaddling but you might have missed that boat. We had a late developer so could swaddle for quite a while. Good luck.

My little one was also very large but equally picky when it came to the bottle. Lots of screaming, crying, etc. One night I got so desperate I used a calpol syringe to feed! It turns out the poor thing had tongue tie which had been “ruled out” by multiple people for the past 5 months. This has been a game changer for feeding and almost overnight switched from half feeds to taking 5 full bottles each day (240mls!). Everyone told me all babies have different appetites etc but I knew in my gut the feeding wasn’t right. Perhaps sorting this will improve the sleep? You can’t sleep on an empty tummy afterall

Hi @iloveorange - I feel like you could be describing my baby too! It's so disheartening. However calm we start out the sleep time, he just escalates himself into a frenzy out of nowhere. I can't offer any advice as we've not figured it out ourselves yet, but if it helps - you're not the only one and she's lucky to have a mama who cares so much about trying to help her. I hope you get some respite soon!

What worked with DS was wrap him up really warm and put him in the cold garden in his pram. He was a November baby so perfect for this winter technique. Obviously check regularly but he was always toasty warm. This technique is common in Scandinavian countries so I'm not weird.

@iloveorange Wow I can’t believe how similar this is to my baby. It’s nice to know I’m not alone. Mine is just hitting 17 weeks and has been doing this for a while. We actually had 2 full days inconsolable because she was so overly tired but fighting her sleep so badly. I put her on her side, with a dummy in, rock her, shush her, pat her bum and she will be calm, eyes closing then BOOM she realises she’s going to sleep so she starts to kick off. My mum said the same that she’s never seen a baby like this before, so it’s nice to know there’s other baby’s like this.
We genuinely didn’t think this behaviour was normal and considered is she getting night terrors or is it an early sign of adhd. But we realised she is just a baby. Just a super mega fussy one. She’s still like this now and usually I just have to persist with her on her side, just rocking and patting her in different ways. She knows as soon as the dummy goes in I will try get her to sleep so she fights that too but I just persist and eventually now she will give in. Her arms seem to be the problem keeping her awake so I hold her hand till she’s asleep too. Similarly to you, this is usually only the issue for naps. Feel like I spend most of the day trying to get her sleep, she’s constantly grumpy when she’s awake too. Always a battle. But at night she will sleep once she is asleep.

My LO of 16 weeks is EXACTLY like this, has anyone on this thread found a solution???

This is my baby too! Did anyone find a solution, I haven’t met or heard of other children like this and it’s so stressful.

So, I replied on this thread a few months ago to say: this is us, but we have no idea what works!

Worth an update now as the little one now sleeps really well. Not to brag, but just to offer some hope it does get better... We were in exactly the same place. Every nap and bedtime was an absolute fight, even though he'd be tired and calm when we started, as soon as we started the process of trying to get him sleepy for bed, he'd kick off and then just scream for hours until eventually he fell asleep through sheer exhaustion. It was hell.

We tried most combinations we could think of, of pats, dummy, song, bounce, etc and none of it helped. Eventually someone suggested that maybe the problem was that we were helping him TOO MUCH and that was the game changer for us. Turns out from really young, or LO just needed to be left to his own devices to fall asleep, like a grown up would.

Didn't happen overnight. We started out just focusing on bedtime sleep, and during the day he would contact nap or whatever worked, just to make sure he wasn't overtired. We started a mega consistent bedtime routine (down to the detail of the same story every night, which we ONLY read at bedtime - now whenever he sees the cover, he knows it's sleepy time) then for a week or so, we would put him down and just keep a still hand on his tummy. No more picking him up unless he got REALLY agitated. The first couple of days he cried for about an hour or so, but he'd been doing that on us anyway so although it felt weird not being more actively involved, it wasn't really any worse for him. Then after a few days he started falling asleep, but waking again after about 10 mins when he sensed us going away, so we started just putting him down and literally leaving him alone in the cot, no touch and just quiet. He responded to that really quickly and by the end of about 3 weeks or so was just settling himself to sleep whenever we put him down like that, in about 20 mins. After that we started doing something similar with day naps, with a similar mini daytime nap routine. He was about 4/5 months old at this point. Definitely earlier than we would have planned to 'sleep train' and we only even thought about trying because he was finding it SO hard to go to sleep otherwise, but honestly the best thing we did and he has been SO MUCH HAPPIER because he's now resting properly and settles calmly whenever the wants a nap. He knows the routine and always looks glad when it starts, because he knows it'll feel nice to get sleepy when he's tired.

He's 13 mths now and genuinely, when we put him down in the cot at bedtime, usually just rolls himself over and goes straight to sleep. It does get better! But basically the main insight we got from this was that for him, I think all the 'help' we were giving him to go to sleep actually stressed him out more because it was stimulating him when he was tired. I guess some babies maybe actually prefer to be left quietly to drift off, with a bit of help in the early days to learn to do it.

This is really helpful, thank you!

Hey any more people that were in the same situation that have updates like @Lawyermama88 ?

My LO that is 16 weeks has a similar problem falling asleep for his naps that became worse last week. There is only two things that changed. Weather got considerably warmer and he learned to roll but only from back to front.

As @Lawyermama88 said I had also many weeks ago stopped the jazz of holding, walking, rocking, shushing and it helped him considerably! He was being put down in his bed with the dummy and I was holding his hands which had a mind of their own. We started to get consistent short naps after that.

This now seems to have stopped working. He goes in short bouts of crying at the beginning whenever he realises that sleep is coming. He takes the dummy by his own will, he enjoys it for a few seconds and then he starts crying. Same the opposite way sometimes. He spits out the dummy, happy for a few seconds, cries more after. He also turns to his side. Sometimes he seems to get comfortable like this and will drift off, but oftentimes this upsets him more. If he does manage to sleep on his back he often turns to the side afterwards. 🤷🏻‍♀️ i thought that maybe he is afraid of getting stuck on his front since he doesn’t know how to turn back but it’s weird he seems he is deliberately trying to roll to his front. When he does get there he cries more.
I’m so confused.