4mo refusing to nap - mummy about to lose it... what would you do?

[Tinkjon]

DS is 4.5 months old. He's not a bad sleeper at night (not great, but not bad) but his daytime naps, or rather lack of!, are driving me INSANE. He simply will not nap unless he's being walked around in the sling or outside in his pram. I've tried to get him to sleep in his cot but he just screams and screams - if he does manage to fall asleep he stays there for about 8 minutes before waking up. I really don't know what to do now, I've tried everything. I know that he needs to get used to napping in his cot but how the hell do I do that? I can't force him to stay asleep. Genuinely at my wits end as to how to change this terrible habit. Or do you think this sort of thing is normal at this age and he'll grow out of it? (I can't help feeling that he won't grow out of it and that I have to somehow help him do it). He is just so whiny and horrible the whole day long because he's constantly tired.

You could try pick up/put down (the Baby Whisperer) - this worked for my DD who was exactly the same. Basically you put them in the cot and stay with them - pick them up when they cry and put them down as soon as they stop. Repeat this ad infinitum - it's hard but it really seems to work although I don't know why. DD is now a brilliant sleeper. HTH

will he sleep in car seat? for day or so till he's back into napping habit then get him back in cot?

Have you tried a dummy? Might mean you have to wean him off it later, but might help him sleep in the meantime without too much of a struggle.

DS has a dummy only for his naps during the day, as he otherwise fights it and gets grumpy.

dont spend all your lo's early years trying to get him to sleep
you will regret it
if he wont sleep let him sit on your knee

4-6 mnth olds are notorious for a phase of not napping

itll pass

If he likes motion you could try a motorised swing chair, for example Fisher-Price Take-a-long swing.

Some babies need to cry a bit befoe they will sleep, is it a whingy non-urgent cry, or a tearful one? My baby will often do a whingy tired cry for five or ten minutes if I put him in his pushchair for a nap but I just do a bit of washing up in the next room and he's asleep within minutes. You know when it's a proper cry.

Also you could try putting him in front of a tumbledrier/washing machine mid cycle as the noise calms most babies and sends them off to sleep.

Is he in a routine of milk, play, nap? They need to get tired out in order to nap.

Oh I had this, it sucked.

The best advice I can give was given to me by a Very Wise Mumsnetter (funnypeculiar ). Do nothing except get your baby to nap for a few days. When you get up in the morning, you do nothing except watch for tired signs. When he's tired, do whatever it takes to get him to sleep - sling/pram/BF whatever. As soon as he wakes up continue watching for more tired signs. Over a few days the overtiredness which makes it hard for them to fall asleep is sorted out and they get much more willing. Then all you have to do is gently persuade them that they can fall asleep somewhere other than your arms/pram/sling etc. In my case DS slept on my shoulder for 45 minutes 4 times a day for a matter of weeks, and once he was rock solid with that I am able to rock him and then put him down and walk away. After a while they get more used to this sleeping-in-the-daytime thing. I wouldn't personally get my knickers in a twist about him self-settling at this stage - I spent ages woryying needlessly about it when DS was teeny only to see he's starting to get much better at falling asleep by himself without any stress or training. Much easier to just get him to sleep any which way and save yourselves all the hassle of overtiredness and the associated misery.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily call it a habit. Babies just like to be near mum, which is why when there's no motion or warmth to reassure them (ie no pram or sling) they wake up to check if you're there. As they get bigger and braver and more secure they don't fight independent sleeping so much. That's my theory anyway!

I won't go into details about just how bad his previously OK night-time sleep is though

Thanks so much for your input, everyone!

levan, I had actually dismissed PU/PD as a bit daft - I couldn't see how it would work - but since you said it worked for you a friend of mine also said so, so I'll definitely give that a go.

PolarBear, he'll only sleep in carseat if it's moving, so that would be just as bad, really.
Beanbag, we did try a dummy but he just spits it out - he can't keep it in his mouth. Is that the same for all babies of this age, I wonder, or is DS just particularly dense at it

Nailpolish, I take your point about not wasting the baby time but he's so desperate to be asleep, he just cries and cries until he falls asleep, it really upsets him. If he was happy to be awake then I'd let him. But babies need to nap!

James&GiantBanana, I've tried the washing machine (that's how DD used to go to sleep!) and yes he is really crying. But no he's not in a routine of milk, play, nap, so that's something I could try.

RosemaryConley (LOL at your name!) now that's very interesting. I had half-wondered about getting him into the sleep time routine however I could and then adjust the sleep place - but I'd talked myself out of it as I decided it would just prolong the problem. But that's great to know it worked for you, that makes me feel more optimistic! I think it would be pretty hard to do this with a school-age DD but maybe during the Easter holidays when there is no school run to worry about. Also good to know that your DS just learned to fall asleep by himself - how old is he? (please don't tell me he's 8 ) I think that's what I'm most worried about - reinforcing the problem. If someone could guarantee me that he would learn to sleep by himself when he's older, and that I wouldn't be pushing that back, then I wouldn't be so stressed about it. I could also deal with it better if it were spring - the daily 2 hour walks in the rain are getting veeeeeery tiresome

Thank you so much everybody, I really appreciate your thoughts and advice!

If he needs motion to sleep then definitely try a takealong swing: loads on ebay they're magical!!!

Tinkjon, he's only just 6 months!

He still needs a wee rock but on good days that only takes a few minutes. He won't fully self-settle but is put-downable even in light sleep and can be patted off to sleep, so my input is much less.

Definitely worth it, no worries about reinforcing stuff (he's too little to need to worry about that IMO), just go with the flow and it gets easier.

I'd liken it to him doing it often enough to a) get practice and b) realise that sleep isn't evil!

Tinkjon, my 4 month old has been kind of the same. Glad I'm not alone. Sleeping at night has become an issue though for us b/c of swaddling (another issue), but my little guy doesn't like to sleep much during the day. People keep telling me they will sleep if they are tired...do you agree? I'm not so sure about this. One day I agree, the next I don't.

Nessa, IME that is one of the biggest fallacies around. Highly alert babies find sleeping extremely difficult at times. Once they are too tired sleeping becomes really hard for them.

I had one like this - she's 14 months now, and much better, although I'm afraid still not easy.

She was terrible at night too, though, so in the end when she was 6 months we did the dreaded controlled crying at night but somehow still couldn't face it in the day. Then at 8 months when she was about to go to nursery I bit the bullet and started to put her down in her cot and stroke her forehead until she went to sleep (this usually involved about 5-15 mins of crying) at routine times. This did actually work quite quickly - took about a week before she would go off after only a bit of crying.

PUPD never worked for us as she just got more and more worked up and in the end she didn't stop crying even when picked up!

Not sure that I'm being all that helpful, but I suppose in the end I wished I'd tried to get her to sleep in her cot earlier as I too got heartily sick of those long walks in the rain!

It seems to me that some babies (mine included) will cry when you try to get them to sleep no matter what you do. Mine did even cry in the pram or sling prior to going to sleep, but somehow because I knew the motion would send her off eventually I was prepared to stick with it. Now I think maybe I should have had the confidence to stick with soothing her in her cot. But hindsight is a wonderful thing, and perhaps she was just ready...

Tipex, the problem with him sleeping in a pram is that he needs to be rocked in it. I'd be quite happy letting him sleep in it if I didn't have to push him everywhere, but when he's asleep that's the only chance I have to get anything done and I really don't want to spend 2 hours pushing a pram around!
Nessamommy, I agree with RosemaryConley that it's a load of rubbish that babies will sleep when they're tired! Just as rubbish as when you get told "don't worry about food - they'll eat when they're hungry" - DD certainly wouldn't!
I might look at the takealong swings - I bought a pram rocker and thought that was the answer as he slept for 3 hours on it the first time we used it, but it was obviously just a coincidence as it hasn't worked since. The little monkey even knows when it's fake-rocking and not Mummy-rocking :-)

It will get better in time, Tinkjon, though it sucks now.

My DD is similar.Completely erratic at naps. We're at the added disadvantage however that DD doesn't really sleep while driving, out in the pram and will take a good 15-20 mins to drop off in the sling!! She is the lightest sleeper too, so any noise outside will wake her. No advice as such (other than when we stay home for a couple of days she does get better like RC says) but you aren't alone! PS she is asleep atm!

Try swaddling. It worked for my DS he is now 10 months old and I still do it to get him to sleep it the day. I use an ordinary flat flanelette cot sheet. I also BF him to sleep despite everyone around me having an opinion about it (rod for your own back etc) but I really don't care, we both love it and it works for us. He now sleeps for 2-3 hours every afternoon.

I would have gone completely insane if he hadn't started napping I really do understand.

Tinkjon, I have also been ignoring the whole "if he's tired he'll sleep" thing. I've read some info on sleep signs on the internet and now realize that I have not been cluing in quick enough and my baby has been getting way too overtired, thus not falling asleep. As soon as I am seeing these cues, I have been trying to put him to sleep. I find the later I wait, the harder it has been. He fusses a bit but after about 2 minutes or so of crying (fussing), he's gone down. I've also been swaddling him. He's been getting out more recently but I have figured out a way for him to stay in his swaddle. The other night he slept from 10:30 (we were later b/c of a visit with friends) until 8:00 in the morning without a feeding! Then he went back down at 8:30 and slept till 10:30 in the morning. Because he was so well rested, I think he slept better during the day as well. Hope this helps out a bit. I was not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel and it just got better...for now! Have you been looking for sleepy signs?

Nessa, I have been looking for sleepy signs, but he seems to be sleepy the whole time because he never gets enough sleep!

DS was like this

Would only nap when on the move or on me, woke after 30 mins exactly

It got better around 6mo by itself, so would not worry too much about habits, do what you gotta do

Swing or bouncy chair is a great idea -- DS started napping in this then cot around 6mo.

HI. Lots of good ideas. My DS was very simular. I found that what worked at night didn't work during the day and I had to seperate the 2.
PU/PD seemed to make him really really upset although I like the baby whisper(sp).
I think the idea of watching is a good one and also watching while he is sleeping to see what might be waking him up. They have a sleep cycle like us and they will natuarlly 'wake' every 45min ish some with move or murmur and carry on into a deep sleep others like mine did will wake up.
Have to tried holding him to sleep and then letting him sleep where he is (the livin room or whatever) because maybe his cot and room are too quite?
I also found that just both of us sitting on my bed ds laying next to me and me doing something boring ie no eye contact etc like reading he would drop off to sleep.
My DS is 2.9 now and still has most naps on my bed although alone now. Good luck. They need their naps and you need the break.

I have a similar problem with my dd although Im lucky if she had half hours worth of naps a day. If she sleeps in my arms she will sleep for ages but if shes in her cot/buggy/anywhere else, she always wakes up after a few minutes. This has been going on since she was about 4months, she is now 8months. There are days where im absolutely exhausted with trying to get her to nap. She has always slept through the night though (from 2wks i had to wake her for feeds at night)so im thankful for that. I just need the break during the day so i can get on with things.

I will be watching this thread to see if anyone comes up with anything i havent tried yet Im sure your LO will soon be napping like an angel, i however dont hold out much hope for my dd, both ds2 and dh have never seemed to need much sleep and it looks like she will be the same, unlike me and ds1 who are grumpy if we get less than 8hrs lol