13 month old, sleep is getting ridiculous

[soootiredddd]

We are all exhausted and I don't understand how she isn't also exhausted herself. Sorry this is long so I'll try to include main points of routine etc:

• Wakes up around 6-6.15am regardless of how much sleep she has/hasn't had
• Still has two naps because she refuses to nap for more than 30-40 mins at a time. So she naps around 10-10.30 ish and then again around 2.30 but sometimes it's later and she's not falling asleep until 3 and then she wakes at like 3.40pm which is obviously too late for a 7pm bedtime...
• She should really be in bed by 7pm because she's been up since 6am and sometimes only had 1 hour of sleep but she's just having none of it. Dicks about until 8-8.30 usually, sometimes 9pm. Eventually lets me feed her to sleep and then transfer to her cot. All attempts to get her to settle in the cot by herself result in her crying and I won't let her get upset like that. Plus she then wakes up the (autistic) 3 year old so leaving her to scream is not an option.
• Then wakes up multiple times each night (usually 4-8 times) and up again for the day at 6am. Usually goes back to sleep with boob but sometimes not (see below).
• If I manage to get her to sleep any earlier (got her down at 7.30pm last night because I managed to get her afternoon nap earlier so she was awake by 3) then she wakes halfway through the night and will not go back to sleep for 2 hours+. Last night she was up from 1-3am. Then woke again for boob at 5 and up for the day at 6. Still didn't nap this morning until 10.30am.
• If i push her through on one nap (after lunch around 12.15pm), she's awake by 1pm and crashes out exhausted by 6.30pm which means she is then up for the day by 4.30-5am. The only way I can get her to nap longer than 30 mins is to hold her the entire time (with boob, not just in the sling) which is also not an option as I have DD3 and also I work 4 days a week so she's not even with me on those days. Only naps 30 mins for the childminder too.

When she wakes she's not unhappy as long as I feed her/go to her. So she'll cry when she wakes but immediately stops when I feed her. She eats almost no food during the day, even when she's not with me, but she's a good weight (60th centile) and seems happy enough. Doctors say there's nothing wrong with her. I wonder if she has silent reflux but she's not inconsolably screaming or anything like that. She's getting less sleep in a 24 hour period than my 3.5 year old who sleeps 7-7 every day so I don't understand how she's not tired. I'm beginning to wonder if this is an early sign that she may also be autistic but she is very different to my eldest who had some other early signs (no babbling/lack of imitation).

I understand that I have created a rod for my own back by feeding her to sleep/cosleeping etc but I did the same with my oldest, her sleep improved when I weaned her at 21 months. But at least she had a normal amount of sleep, she just woke quite frequently and needed help getting back to sleep. But my youngest is just not getting enough sleep, and just wants to mess around and roll around the bed/cot and shout etc. Please help!

Bumping for evening people :-)

My first DD was doing this at 10/11 months. Controlled crying and stopping breastfeeding to sleep sorted it for us in 2 nights. It was miraculous and by doing this she cried less overall and was a much happier, rested baby. It took less than 20 mins first night and 5 minutes second night.

Thanks, I don’t think I really want to stop breastfeeding yet. But if I want her to sleep better then I maybe do need to cut the association with feeding to sleep etc.

We used an app to track my sons sleep for a month. We found that he sleeps 11 - 11.5 hours on average. 9 overnight and 1.5-2.5 in one after lunch nap. The app helped us see that 11ish hours is just his norm and apparently this is within normal range, though on the lower end.

We do cosleep but he will nap when I'm not around too. I am also still breastfeeding and he is 19 months old.

It was taking an hour and a half to put him down and we were trying to stick to a routine of 7pm bed but it wasn't working. We now put him down for a nap 5 hours after he wakes and put him to bed 6-6.5 hours after nap. Much quicker and less stress but we do need to let go of the 7pm bedtime dream.

My DS2 is very similar. He’s 11montjs and sleep is pretty pants. Two naps is still quite normal at this age from what I’ve read. If he has a later second nap I do push bedtime back (which can be hard when I’m knackered but better than fighting to get him settled for 90mins.) I add 4ish hours on to whenever he woke up from his last nap and that is his bedtime. He wakes about 6:30, occasionally nearer to 7pm. He will manage 2-3hrs in his cot each night then he wakes and I co-sleep and he BFs on and off through the night.

You have a look on at Lyndsey Hookway on Instagram/Facebook for her info around sleep. Excellent ideas about habit stacking and improving sleep whilst still BFing. You haven’t made a rod for your own back, you’ve cared for your baby in a way that worked but now you want to tweak things. That doesn’t mean you’ve done it wrong. Sending strength and lots of coffee!

What is she walking up for 4-8 times? Feeding? Is it possible she is disturbed by co sleeping. If shes waking up hungry I’d try and get her full full full before bed. She is likely very tired I’d think although if she seems fine in the day, I’d just work on cutting those night wake ups. This is what is causing disruption for you more so than the lack of daytime naps! So I’d tackle that first. I don’t co sleep as I find it uncomfortable- baby boy is in cot at the foot of the bed - could you try something like that & see if co sleeping a actually waking her up. My SIL had terrible sleep at night until she stopped co sleeping. She expected the transition to be horrendous but they all slept through from night 1!!!! Good luck x

I think that's the only way you will turn it around. Stop the boob and do controlled crying if you could get your other one looked after for a few nights. Not easy but I can't see it improving otherwise

Also the reason she eats no feed is probably because of all the milk she's having. At a year food should be the main nourishment t and the milk takes a back step !

What have doctors checked? Tongue tie? Iron? Worms? Allergies? Including environmental ones like dust. Any snoring/mouthbreathing?

I wouldn't be worried about the 2 naps, or short naps, or late bedtime, or amount of total sleep if she's happy. It sounds like it could just be the tricky transition to 1 nap and in a month or so she can cope better? If you could get a longer nap that sounds like it might do the trick but that sounds tough, how is she in the car or pram?

I've also got a 13 month old who loves nighttime boob so I send solidarity. Does your feed much in the day? Our food intake improved a lot when day feeds got cut out.

Well she won't be breastfeeding to sleep when she's 10 so it will improve and CC isn't the only way. Best to check everything else is in good order before resorting to such things and OP states she wonders about silent reflux or autism so its sensible to start there.

I agree with this.

You don’t need to stop BF’ing altogether, but you do need to break the food/sleep association. I BF’ed my 3 DCs until 9mo/21mo/ongoing at 13 mo, but I never fed them to sleep past about 6 months old. Controlled crying all the way. It was never as bad as I expected it to be, and it was totally worth it for them, for me, and for the older sibling(s) - because let’s be honest, no matter how quiet you try to be with night-time feeds, they’re still likely going to be woken up a little bit each time.

You need to let her cry a bit - she will never learn to fall asleep independently in her cot otherwise. You don’t have to stop breast feeding - I still breastfeed my 15 months old. - but I stopped feeding her to sleep a long time ago! I just give her the bedtime milk at 6.30 instead and then we do books, quick cuddle and into the cot awake !

It's as if you are describing my 13 month old! She's a terrible sleeper and barely eats. The nights are becoming unbearable. I BF but she stopped being fed to sleep months ago. She falls asleep easily by herself around 7pm she sleeps until about 10:30pm and then that's it, she's awake every single hour. She screams and crys every time she wakes up. I've tried feeding, leaving her, picking her up. Nothing works!! I've booked in with the HV on Friday to see if she can offer any advice. It's really dragging me down now. I don't know any other babies like it. Totally soul destroying.

Just to say, you're not alone 😞

When your baby feeds during the night, it stimulates the hormone that is responsible for breastmilk production. If a baby doesn't feed at all during the night, it would likely affect breastmilk supply.

It's a bit difficult to say why she is unsettled as it could be so many different things. It does sound like she is seeking your reassurance about something. Have you picked up any possible cues or by the sounds of her cries about what might be bothering her?

Sending hugs x

Realised I hadn’t come back to update.

I had been to the doctor and they ended up ordering an urgent scan because she was waking so frequently and was also hitting her head and screaming when she woke up 😯 I guess they wanted to rule out anything serious. Fortunately didn’t find anything sinister but they did find fluid in her sinuses and inner ear. We have a referral to ENT because they think she may be getting recurrent ear infections.

We have had the most horrendous month of sleep ever, partly because we all had covid so all routine went out the window. However I think now we have finally cracked the transition to one nap and she is pretty reliably sleeping 7-7 with a nap from 12.30-2 ish.

however when I say she’s sleeping from 7-7 that still includes numerous wake-ups 🤦‍♀️ But at least I’m not battling her at bedtime anymore. However I just can’t face trying to get her to stop feeding to sleep. My elder autistic DD gets very distressed when the youngest cries and I’m just not cut out for it. I will keep plodding on and try to wait for her to grow out of it… somehow. My DH is very supportive and gives me lie ins both days on the weekend so I can catch up on sleep given that I do all the night wake ups 😬

Have you tried pick up put down method? It means she isn't left to cry but breaks the feeding to sleep association. We did it at 9months after i stopped breastfeed and following TWO MONTHS of HOURLY wakings The first night i picked DD up and put her down about every 2mins for 1.5hrs but then something clicked and she slept through. Worked after the first night and i never had such a good night sleep that first night.

I wouldn't worry about 2 naps. My 13month old is still on 2 naps as well
10-11am and 2.30-4ish. She goes to bed pretty reliably by 7.30pm.

Good luck with the ear infections - i suffer and they are horrible. Hope she gets sorted soon!

@YorkshireTeaCup i haven’t tried it no. To be honest I haven’t tried any form of sleep training yet partly because I just don’t think we can manage the crying. But it might be worth a shot at some point…

the problem with two naps is that I can’t get her to sleep at 10am, she won’t sleep until at least 11 and that’s if I let her fall asleep on the boob. She completely refuses to sleep for the childminder before lunchtime. So then her first nap is super late and has a knock on effect. Also if she didn’t wake from her second nap until 4 then she would be up until at least 9pm! I think she was just ready to drop the other nap and is managing ok on one 1.5 hour nap. Both my kids have had very low daytime sleep needs and have never been those kids who will have three hour afternoon naps.

however when I say she’s sleeping from 7-7 that still includes numerous wake-ups

And this is the problem with stuff you read online…. Sleeping 7-7 isn’t sleeping 7-7 if she wakes up numerous times. It’s sleeping 19:00-23:00, 23:30-00:30, 00:45-02:50, 03:00-04:45, 04:55-07:00 etc..

If you’re distressed when she cries, your other DD is distressed when she cries, why are you delaying resolving this?

@Sexismdoesntrule no exactly, this is my point. She still wakes up loads. I’m not claiming she sleeps through?! But in my OP I was saying that she wasn’t going to bed and/or she was waking stupidly early whereas now she is going to sleep at 7 and not waking for the day until 7.

Im delaying resolving it because at the moment she wakes, she cries and then I feed her and she immediately stops crying. If I want to resolve this then I presume I have to not feed her when she wakes up which means she will just keep crying. I find it hard to listen to and I know it will wake my older DD who will be very upset by her sister screaming for god knows how long in the middle of the night. The only thing that stops her crying is if I feed her. I have tried rocking her, singing, sending DH in, cosleeping… everything else. If she wakes she wants milk and nothing else.

If I want to resolve this then I presume I have to not feed her when she wakes up which means she will just keep crying

In the short term yes. By short term I mean one or two nights.

I find it hard to listen to
good - youre functioning human - that’s the response your body gives automatically

I know it will wake my older DD
yes - this will happen - once or twice but not every time (nothing will reassure you of this like experience though, it didn’t for me😂)

her sister screaming for god knows how long in the middle of the night

It will be until she realises she can put herself to sleep, that is all, not all night.

The only thing that stops her crying is if I feed her
Because you keep feeding her.

If she wakes she wants milk and nothing else
At the moment, because of what has been used to comfort, which isn’t bad it’s only in question right now because you’re a human that needs to rest and you have other responsibilities.

She isn’t going to be deprived of ANYTHING if you stop feeding to sleep, I promise you, eventually you can cuddle to sleep you can rock her if you want but mostly she will get herself to sleep. Then you can be a little less constrained.

My son was the same. Still feed him to sleep. He now sleeps through. They outgrow the frequent wakings. You're doing nothing wrong. Ear infections much worse at night / when laying flat. Hope things improve soon.

You don’t need to sleep train! Bloody hate that this is so normalised. Sleep is developmental, they get there in their own time. You don’t need to remove comfort and security from your child to make it happen.

My 13 month old was still waking a lot and boobing and cosleeping. At 20 months he sleeps alone on a floor bed in his own room, r
rarely wakes over night. No force, no training. In his own time. The only thing we encourages was daddy settling him for bed instead of just me, I still fed all night wakes but then they stopped by himself.

I know this is an old post but this is me right now. I'm dying ha. Hope it improved 🙏

You’re not alone. I’m still in the depths of hell with a 2.5 year old. Would love someone to reassure me that it does get better at some point 😩

Sorry to hijack, but if you happen to see this @YorkshireTeaCup, I’d love to hear more about how this worked. I’d always heard that PUPD is unlikely to work past 6 months. Were there many wakings the first night? How did you stop her from just falling asleep in your arms when you picked her up? Any tips welcome!