The constant whining

[Starfish25]

Hi, needing some help with naps please (i think) we have currently dropped down to 2 naps a day, has a max 3 hours of sleep.
My 8 month old will go to bed from 6:30/7pm (can be asleep by 7) depending on how cranky he is, he will sleep till 4am which i will give him his dummy then he will drop back off to sleep till around 5:20ish (don't mind this early wake up as I'm due back in work soon) he will have a milk at 6am and not long after he starts to whine. Will give him his breakfast at 7am and by 7:30 he wants to sleep (extra loud whining) but I've read up he shouldn't have a 1st nap till after 8am (which he does for an hour) as it could affect the night sleep. Dinner is at 11 then not long after he wants his 2nd nap which will be 12 till 2 then around 3 he starts whining again, is he bored? Tired? Hungry? He doesn't take much milk at this time. Doesn't matter what we do he just constantly whines and it's honestly draining. Has tea after 4 then by 5 starts back up whinging. He has his 2 bottom teeth through can't see anymore coming through.
Are his nap times not working for him? How can i change them if their not?
Would appreciate any help

He sounds chronically overtired to me - have you tried putting him back to bed at 5.2am? It's a very long day!

Also, what are you doing with him all day? Is he crawling? Is he getting enough exercise and fresh air?

He also doesn't seem to be having much milk either, at 8m he should still be having a fair amount during the day.

To change the nap times it's about moving everything forward. I think that's your question 🤔
So temporarily add a third nap in. Say 430pm/445pm for 30 mins. Then this gets a later bed time of 8pm. Then after a while (can take up to 3 weeks) lo will sleep a bit later.

Though if this routine suits you, go with it. Personally it doesn't suit me. Going back to bed at 730am...... it would completely make issues with my lo and nursery drop offs or to family drop offs and such. We're normally out the door by 745am.

Also such long wake times.... 830am till midday is long then from 2pm till 7pm. Again for me thats long. I think max awake time for my lo at this age was about 3.5 hours and that was at end of day. Maybe lo is overtired? Hence the whinging.

How much milk are you giving lo? I think my lo was having 3 or 4 bottles at this age.

Thank you for a reply. Yeah i have tried putting him back to bed but he will just either talk away or he will cry to get out. I've tried leaving him but he doesn't go back asleep.
No he's not crawling yet, we are out most mornings either on walks/goin to see the family/park or we go shopping and in the garden of an afternoon if the weather is ok xx

Sorry he has milk of a morning once he wakes, plus milk in his weetabix ect then offered milk around 10:30 which he will sometimes refuses then given milk in the afternoon which again can be hit or miss then a last bottle before bed xx

Thank you for a reply. He did used to have 3 naps and the last nap was around 4pm but he stopped wanting to take it so thought he wanted to drop it. I do still offer that nap but he will just talk away so at that time i offer him his tea and he happily takes it xx

There isn't anything wrong with giving him a nap before 8am if he needs it. Usually they need their first nap sooner and then the stretches between naps and bed are longer as the day goes on.
I don't really have a strict schedule with my DD (10 months) and just go with when she seems tired. She's on 2 naps and has been for a while but even now she sometimes needs an extra one.
I'd try giving him a nap a bit earlier and see if that helps. It does seem weird he's not having as much milk as before 1 their primary source of food should still really be milk.
Around 8 months they can get a bit crankier and fussier so it could just be that, my DD was super fussy around that time and got quite a lot clingier. She's grown out of it now

Personally I would offer a nap around 430pm or 445pm. Think at that ages food followed. I know you offer at 4pm but it may be a touch too early.

7am to 730am breakfast
830am to 9am milk.
930am to 945am nap till 11am nap
11am snack like a baby crisp thing. Nothing big.
1230pm lunch
130pm to 145pm milk
2pm nap.
330pm to 4pm wake.
4pm snack. Again maybe a couple cheese chunks. Nothing big. More of a taste.
530pm dinner
7pm to 730pm milk then bed. Asleep by 8pm.

I know I offered a lot but my kid has always been a eat every couple hours and dropped her bottles very quick. So was advised by hv to do similar to above.

The Issue may be that lo is too hungry to fall asleep at 4pm..... maybe why happy to have dinner?? But not sleep? Could you give dinner? Then pop down for a nap after? I have done that before.

I was always told that if you give dinner at day 4pm there start waking from 4am onwards as its their belly starting to get hungry. Not sure how true that is.

Our daughter went through a phase of doing this and still does on the odd day (now 9 months). Very similar target routine to you in terms of 2 naps, asleep 6.30/7pm, awake by 5.30am and wouldn't resettle.

On the days she woke up early (before 6am) I shunted the naps forward and added in a 3rd nap like pp suggested, so that bedtime wasn't too early. First nap would be around 8am, 2nd around 12.30, 3rd around 4.30. 3rd nap always has to be in the buggy otherwise she won't settle - I almost have to force her to have it, and 4pm would be too early for her. For about 6 weeks she bounced between 2 and 3 nap days, now mostly 2 nap days with the odd 3 nap one. 2 nap day would be wake 6/6.30, 1st nap 9am, 2nd nap 2pm.