3.5yo up for hours in middle of night

[Smallsheets]

Our 3.5 yo regularly wakes up at around 2/3am and stays awake for a couple of hours before he drifts off at around 5am then wakes for the day at 6am. He’s generally quiet but shuffles around/tosses and turns. He’s not hungry/thirsty/doesn’t need the loo. My DH and I take turns to co-sleep with him as he otherwise wakes screaming but if we are with him he’s quiet.

He gave up his naps at the start of the year and since then I feel like things have gone downhill with his sleep. He used to sleep independently but needs us with him and screams in the middle of the night if he wakes and we aren’t there. Waking to a screaming hysterical child at 3am was getting too much for us mentally hence the decision to co sleep.

He goes to bed at 7pm, wakes at around 2am, back to sleep 5am and wakes for the day around 6am or maybe earlier.

On the rare occasion he naps, he goes to bed at 8:30pm but still wakes in the middle of the night for a few hours then goes back to sleep then wakes before 6am.

I feel the lack of sleep is really not good for him. He is exhausted by 5pm but refuses to go to bed earlier than 7pm. I feel like he still needs a short nap but unless we are in the car or he is sick he won’t nap. I am at a loss as to what to do to make this easier for him (and us).

Any tips or do we just need to ride out this rough nap transition? It’s been almost 6 months!!!

Ps grow clock doesn’t work. Rewards at the end of the week for staying in bed etc doesn’t work either as he just doesn’t care/seems to forget it’s what he needs to work towards.

Is there any neurodiversity in your family? This regularly happens to me, and has for a long time, and I have dyslexia.

I was surprised to learn it is very normal for neurodiverse people during a cpd at work, as it is when our brains decide to process the information of the day that we don't have the bandwidth for at the time.

Is he in preschool and learning lots of new stuff? Does it happen every night or just sometimes?

I found playing relaxing music, that my dd likes/enjoys listening to, on repeat helped my dd sleep through the night.

Dd used to wake in the middle of the night and we started co sleeping till she was ready to sleep on her own.

Having a sleep cd every night (even while co sleeping) made a huge difference.

Hope this helps.

@LGBirmingham none that I am aware of but that is a really interesting point. A few people have suggested he might be neurodiverse in a roundabout way (ie oh my DS does that and he has autism/adhd etc) but I’ve just dismissed it as they’ve maybe spent 30 mins with him and aren’t qualified healthcare professionals but maybe I will speak to my GP and see what they say.

he’s still with the childminder, hopefully starting preschool in September. He’s always been an early rises but the waking in the middle of the night and staying awake for ages has started since he dropped the nap and it happens 5 or 6 nights out of 7.

@ImustLearn2Cook I will give this a go! We play soothing music before bed but he asks to turn it off when he’s ready to sleep.

I don’t mind the co sleeping as long as I can also get some sleep but that doesn’t seem to be happening at the moment

Maybe it is a routine thing for you if it is happening that often? I guess you've played around with bedtimes already? It's definitely loads more likely to happen to me if I've tried to get an early night.

I find for me it happens most if I've been working througha complex problem in the day, then something stirs me at night (ds, too hot, random noise etc...) and I can't get back to sleep and spend hours working through the issues of the previous day. I've not found a solution myself.

Remember that neurodiversity is also dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia and bipolar as well as Autism and Adhd/Add. It's very common for it to run in families but not necessarily the same condition.

Would something like a Yoto player help? If he wakes up then he can play music/books/sounds if that's something that helps settle him to sleep.

I second some keep music even if you put it on once he's asleep. My kids don't sleep until 9pm now, so if you can reduce the night wakings then you could try push back bedtime a little. They did used to wake in the night when younger, do the wide awake stints for a couple of hours. I found intense play, book reading would reduce this time. It's not what you want to do, but it wears them out.

Also a red based nightlight (so the normal light is also red based for before bed or in the night) and no iPad / tv for 2 hours before bed.

I also have a red based night light that I covered with a crochet hat (with the light shining through the holes) to make it less bright. Dd finds it comforting.

On the red based lights we have Lumie bed bugs. I didn't pay £75, shop around I can see them cheaper on selfridges. The second one I got for £35 off Facebook marketplace and she delivered it as was passing, she offered as would of needed to be posted.

It does sun down and then the nightlight is red.

would have ( my mother will be on my case) The theory is that red light wavelengths stimulate the production of melatonin*. Melatonin is a naturally occurring hormone that helps you sleep.