Is there anything I can do to improve 7 mo's sleep?

[SecondhandTable]

Or is it just a case of riding it out and it will improve itself? My eldest was a pretty good sleeper, without us really having to do much about it. At a loss with DC2 really who was a good sleeper a few months ago but for the last two months or so will do a 3hr stretch first thing and then wakes more frequently all night long after that, anywhere between 30 mins -2.5hrs at a time. DH and I are exhausted but we don't want baby to be distressed by leaving him to cry nor do we want to cosleep.

How does he fall asleep?

For bed time, he is on a lap (usually mine) in sleeping bag with dummy and his sleepytot lamb, and rocked in a rocking chair, in our bedroom with the blackout curtains drawn, and his Chicco music player playing on a low volume. He is usually transferred into his cot asleep but sometimes he's not quite asleep and does the last part of drifting off himself in his cot.

I'm not convinced the waking is related to the above though...I know what people say about it, but my eldest was rocked to sleep at this age too and transferred to her cot asleep, and yet she slept much better?

Sounds like my 7 month old except she's never ever slept well. She'll sometimes do 2-3 hours at the start and then it's every hour from 11pm until morning. Daytime naps are short and in a moving pram only.

I do bring her into the bed in desperation, I got sleep between 5am and 7am this morning by bringing her into bed. It's not sustainable though as I don't want to co-sleep longer term and want to stop BFing, and at the moment she won't go to sleep for anyone else.

Sorry I have absolutely no suggestions for you, just solidarity...

Btw I did sleep training with one of my older children and it worked amazingly, but he was older, closer to a year. At 7mo she still feels very little.

Gosh you have it even worse than us by the sounds of it, I'm so sorry! My eldest was generally a pretty good sleeper so I guess we couldn't get lucky twice in a row! Both of mine have been shocking nappers as babies too. What kind of sleep training did you do with your eldest, did they cry a lot? No judgement at all just genuinely interested. We did a very slow gradual retreat without hardly any tears with my eldest between 9 and 12 months to get her to go to sleep alone in her cot for bed time which worked well. But we didn't need to do anything for sleeping through as she did it anyway most the time from being tiny.

How is he waking?
Crying? Hungry? Just wide awake?

Sympathies here too. Going through similar with DD 8 months, who was a brilliant sleeper until 4 months.
Wakes frequently in the night now but wants to get back to sleep, just struggles on her own without being held/fed.

I'm going to attempt some kind of sleep training next week, not sure what exactly, but I'll let you know how it goes.

With my eldest we did sleep training that was leaving him to cry for slightly longer periods at a time, and going in to quietly lay him back down, and shush him. Started at leaving him one minute, then worked up from there. The first night was awful, this went on for nearly 2 hours and my heart was breaking but it worked incredibly well. The 2nd night he settled within 15 minutes or so, and after that he was just amazing.

We didn't do it with our 2nd child as she was a different personality and actually preferred just to be left alone to quietly go to sleep. Then her sleep went completely to shit when she turned 3... Now she's 4 it's patchy but bearable.

Baby 3 is the most happy, chilled, contented little babe but just wakes so frequently... no idea why. We have moved her to her own room now and last night was better, she woke 4 times in 12 hours which was great compared to the 6 times in 5 hours of the night before...

I don't really know what to suggest, some sort of sleep training is probably best, either gentle if you think that will work or slightly harsher if needed. My firstborn would not have responded to very gentle methods I think, anything like shushing, patting, pick up put down etc just made him think it was playtime. He needed to be left alone, and that meant he cried. I think he was about 10 months though.

Hope you get some sleep tonight 😴

He wakes crying, and in about 10 seconds it goes to absolutely ballistic screaming his head off! He mostly just wants to go back to sleep, his eyes aren't always even properly open and he will rub his eyes and look for his dummy etc. We might get one wake in the night where we can get away with replacing his dummy and maybe patting his belly a little and he will go back to sleep. The rest of the time it's a mixture of milk feeds, and needing cuddling and rocking/patting. I don't attempt to feed him unless it's been around 4 or more hours since his previous milk feed as through experience he's not hungry sooner than this and doesn't feed then anyway, just flails around and cries wanting to sleep.

He is mostly breastfed but he has a few bottles of formula a week in night feeds that DH does. He doesn't sleep any differently after a breastfeed or formula. However I'm thinking of changing the bed time feed to formula gradually over the next week or so. As he often is super tired by bed time and can't really be arsed to breastfeed properly. So I think he might take more milk before bed in a bottle with it being easier, so hoping that might help him do a longer first stretch of sleep. I will likely stop breastfeeding completely over the next few months anyway tbh so not bothered about that.

He is chronically tired because he hardly naps so he doesn't make up for his poor night the sleep in the day at all. I don't know how he does it. He does cry and whinge a lot at home on the day, because of being tired. He's ok mostly if we are out though as he is distracted.

Also interesting you say that about your other child, my good sleeping eldest so started regular night waking at 3! She's about to turn 4 and it's hit and miss, some nights she sleeps soundly all night and other nights she wakes every couple of hours absolutely screaming her head off and essentially tantrumming in the night because she wants us to repeatedly do long lists of things she can easily do herself or whatever. As I write this I'm in the middle of breastfeeding the baby and just as he was about to doze off after 15 mins, she woke shouting for DH and is currently throwing a huge tantrum screaming her head off. Feel so sorry for our poor neighbours as it's flats too so the sound will carry for for the upstairs neighbours.

Gradual retreat sleep training. You're in the room so not leaving them to cry. We did it at 7.5 months. She was fed to sleep and that was 100% the issue - she went from her usual five wake ups down to one on night one, just because she had got herself to sleep (and I don't think the fact your older kid didn't have this issue means there isn't a connection, in many cases, between being helped to get to sleep and night wakings - exceptions to every rule!)

Yep my middle one spent aged 3 screeching in the night that she needed help to the toilet, to put her blanket back on her bed, to fix her pillow etc etc. I was pregnant and then had a small baby... Gah! She is a bit better now at 4 but there were a few nights I snapped at her and felt awful.

The baby woke 4 times in 12 hours again which was ok, I think I need to help her learn to fall asleep herself though as she is fed to sleep. I also want to stop breastfeeding and at the moment she is hit or miss with a bottle, if it's from me she will refuse it. Again she's so different - my other loved their bottles and guzzled them down happily. I'm feeding her every time she wakes overnight because she wants a boob in her mouth to fall asleep. Not sustainable!

Sympathies and solidarity 🙃

A 7MO old can replace their own dummy, if they can find it. How many do you give at bedtime? I’d give loads, like about 10, and then when he does wake he has a way of soothing himself. Learning to replace the dummy was such a turning point for us, we instantly started getting 12 hours uninterrupted.

Yes that's what we had last night with DC1 for about an hour between 5 and 6 am she was basically tantrumming because we wouldn't do a huge long list of things she could do herself...nightmare and disturbed the baby. When I was pregnant I was worried a crying baby would disturb DC1's generally good sleep. That has hardly happened, instead it's been her frequent middle of the night tantrums that wake DC2! DC1's behaviour is just absolutely appalling overall at the moment to be honest me and DH are struggling to cope with her but that's for a different thread...

DC2 sleeps with a sleepytot teddy lamb, so 4 dummies, one attached to each leg of the lamb. DC1 had these too, but the bunnies. She couldn't routinely sort it herself though til she was about 12 months to be honest though although it was gradual. DC2 has poorer fine motor skills than DC1 did too at this age so can't see him replacing it himself any time soon. And even then most of the time he still cries and screams unless he's cuddled/rocked/patted and sometimes fed too.

Just an update on this. We did the Ferber method and so far it has worked amazingly.
Gone from multiple wake ups and needing feeding/contact to sleep, to sleeping through or one wake up and then settle herself back to sleep within minutes.
Results improved as the days progressed, but only took 1 or 2 days for her to get the hang of it. I just hope it lasts...
For various reasons I haven't attempted for day time naps yet which are usually in the buggy on walks or the car seat, but I hope to attempt this soon.

How did you know your little one wasn't hungry at all when you did this? My boy definitely is hungry at least some of the time he wakes, he will often spend a good 5 mins or so on each breast at a night feed to drain it and when he has formula he usually drinks about 180ml so a sizeable amount. Im not sure how I could do the Ferber method or how it would work if he is genuinely hungry some of the time he wakes? And how would I know when that is hah?

Controversial opinion: have you tried a sleepyhead? My son went from an amazing sleeper until 6 months and then started food and started crawling at the same time and suddenly sleep went to shit. Persevered for 2 months but the wakes and feeds were getting more and more frequent. He spent most of the night (from midnight) in our bed with his head on my pillow and feet on DH's. All his naps were in the pram where he was snuggled in around his head so thought sleepyhead might work. Decided to bite the bullet and got a secondhand grande (I think?) sleepyhead. The big one for 9-36months. Honestly, total game changer. First night one wake and I put him back down after a feed, straight back to sleep. Second night onwards slept right through to 5am at which point he came into our bed for a feed and a last wee snooze.

I know there are a so many things that go against it but he's a chunky wee man and I felt the suffocation risk at this stage was minimal and also probably less likely in something designed for him to sleep in vs our bed/pillows. It also seemed less of a risk than being driven around by a completely shattered mother. He still sleeps in it now age 13m and is finally doing 7-7 in it so the next stage is to wean him off the sleepyhead completely. But I'll take a wee bit longer of the full night sleeps first

And regarding hunger, who knows. He went from feeding all night long to not at all. Might explain why he's such a wee pie!

I'd offer a feed first before anything TBH.

Also have you considered teething?

I will look into the sleepyhead. I didn't want to buy anything like that because of safe sleep guidelines however you are right that at 7 months a lot of that danger has passed. Or at least drastically reduced. He is a chunky boy too, he wears 9-12months clothing and he can roll around freely etc now.

Teething - possible, we've tried paracetamol, ibuprofen and Anbesol on nighrs where he's been difficult to soothe and crying a lot when we thought teething was a possibility but tbh none of it helped. He still has no teeth so I don't think this is the cause especially as his bad night wakings started about 2 months ago now.

Feeding - the thing is, sometimes I try to breastfeed him and he fusses and cries because he's not hungry and then it takes even longer to settle him back to sleep.

Last night was a pretty good night for him which looked liked this:

Got ready for bed, in sleepsuit, night nappy, sleeping bag. Breastfeed 7.45pm whilst being rocked in rocking chair in dark bedroom with his lullaby music on. When he had enough I cuddled him and put his dummy in attached to his sleepytot lamb. He got drowsy and then started wriggling a bit irritated so I laid him in his cot and left the room and he fell asleep himself by about 8.15pm.

Woke up 11:45pm. My gut told me he wasn't hungry so DH got him and took him downstairs (as he was still up and I was in bed). Cuddled him back to sleep, no idea how long this took though. Brought him back to his bed once he was asleep.

Woke up 3am, DH tried to help him get his dummy and pat him and play lullabies but he wouldn't settle, so I breastfed him in the rocking chair in our room til he was done. Dummy popped in and put down in his cotbed. He wasnt quite asleep but very drowsy and went straight to sleep, this was about 3.15.

Woke up at 6.15am but crying more intensely this time, again settling with dummy etc didn't work. Did same as above again, he was back in bed about 6.30.

Woke at 7.50am for the day babbling. And this is a fairly good night...

The way you describe him waking, eyes screwed shut and thrashing sounds like my ds 7mo when his legs feel restricted with the sleeping bag or cover. He must go to kick his legs to relieve wind and realise he's enclosed. Tbh I am exactly the same and hate covers round my legs so I get it. I usually have to bring him out, feed and go back down again after giving him some help with the wind. IF he didn't feel restricted first it probably wouldn't wake him. It's the only time I gone he wakes like that with the eyes still shut

Re sleepyhead, I think there's possibly a safe sleep certified one called Purflo? I was being tight and getting it secondhand cos it seemed such a gamble to spend £200+ on something that may not work. I got it on marketplace for £50. Knowing the magic that it works I'd have been more than happy to pay £200. But I'd have been raging if it didn't work!

The restricted legs thing never occured to me but this is actually possible as he sleeps in a sleeping bag and the poorer sleep has roughly coincided with him learning to roll more and generally being more mobile including in his sleep. Sometimes when he wakes crying his head is in the opposite way than I put him in the bed haha. I don't know what I can do about that though as he would kick blankets off and wake from being cold anyway probably. .

Purflo seem to only do a newborn bed thing that only goes up to 8 months but if we ever have another baby I'd be interested in that thanks for the tip it looks great!

Wow baby sleep is a mindfield isn't it? My eldest was generally a good sleeper so I never had to do much about it. Guess I couldn't get lucky twice in a row!

I had a quick look, they don't have the big one on the actual Purflo website but it's on the Jojo Maman one if you were still thinking of it. It's £135 which beats a new sleepyhead by miles! Wonder if it has been discontinued or something. They have such gorgeous covers for the small Purflo one, almost makes me want another baby just to get one 😂 clearly I've forgotten the sleepless night! I know what you mean about not getting lucky with 2 sleeping kids, my daughter slept so well from day 1, it was a shock to the system to have DS up all night!