How do you make any plans when your toddler fights naps everyday?

[Avonacha]

Genuine question, trying to sound moany but I'm at my wit's end. 18mo DD has phases (weeks long) where she will do anything and everything to avoid napping. I try and make plans (soft play, play dates, errands etc) but I'll see her yawn or rub her eyes and decide to try and get her down for a nap...2 hours later she is still awake and just cranky, at which point I wonder, is it even worth taking her anywhere because she will just meltdown or doze off in the car for 15 mins and wake up in a rotten mood. I don't know if I'm overthinking this, but she genuinely is in such a bad mood when tired and she also doesn't nap anywhere but home or in the car. I feel like I'm just trapped at home in a constant battle to get her to nap.

At bedtime she puts up no resistance at all, she knows it's time for proper sleep. She wakes up once or twice and DH can usually settle her quickly and sometimes sleeps through. Wakes up around 5/5.30 which I find exhausting but ah well, that's life!

Anyone been through this? How did you plan anything? I am either late for EVERYTHING because she falls asleep from sheer exhaustion after a long battle, or we go and she is in a horrendous mood and tantrums left right and centre....or as has become the norm now, we just don't go :(

You speak very authoratively FATEdestiny. What is your background? My experience is only anecdotal via children, grandchildren and friends, but although all children are different I don't think I know any sleeping as long as you suggest, and I don't think we can all be poor parents, as you seem to be suggesting.

I would try to do things in the morning, then she will either have a nap or just a chilled time at home in the afternoon.

You can use advanced search to see my long history posting on the Mumsnet sleep board Artus. I'm a sleep consultant.

Update- I put DD to bed slightly earlier than usual and she's now been awake for almost an hour :( I'm at a loss. DH has taken over as she's just screaming at me. Ugh.

Rome wasn’t built in a day. It will probably get worse before it gets better, as you’ll be getting her up at 7 and she’ll be grumpy and tired from the night before. But persevere would be my advice.

I've worked with babies and young children for nearly 20 years and I have literally never met a single 18 month old who needed to sleep for 12 hours overnight and 4 hours during the day. Total nonsense 😂

Definitely sounds like she's undertired to me OP. You know your child best so you'll be the best person to work out what will work for her (and you) during this phase. Personally I'd go with the flow and assume she'll nap when she's tired enough rather than getting into sleep resistance battles or being woken up in the night

@goodnightsugarpop Thanks for your reply. I've been really surprised by what I've read in terms of 18mo sleep requirements too. Yesterday I googled what my DD's wake window should be and was really surprised to discover that it's not even 6 hours! Which technically would mean 2 naps a day. We haven't done 2 naps since before her first birthday!

I genuinely wonder how many 18 month olds actually still nap 2x a day because I don't know a single one. I also wonder how accurate these wake window guides are 😕

In other news, the nap fighting continues and yesterday we even had some bedtime drama and several wakings so I'm thinking it might be a regression? Or teeth? Or the angle of the ice rings of Venus just don't match my DD's telepathic sleep radar. Who the hell knows anymore.

My understanding is that most wake window/sleep amount guides aren't very scientific, generally based on very small studies and just give an average when most kids will by definition be somewhere either side of that average... Georgina May (baby sleep expert) quotes a big study from Australia that found 1 year old babies sleeping anything between 9 - 16 hours per 24. Certainly by the time mine was 18 months he could easily do an 8 hour wake window between nap & bedtime, though he's always been on the low sleep needs side.

In my experience a lot of kids' sleep needs reduce (sometimes pretty dramatically) around 18 months. My son's 2 now and since 18 months has been waking up around 6.30am, napping for 1 hour before lunch & going to bed at 9pm. If I try to get him to nap more or go to bed earlier he's just restless all night and wakes up at 4am. With a short nap & late bedtime he sleeps much better

😂😂😂😭

I think often children drop to one nap when they start nursery as that’s the routine there and it works better as they sleep well in that quiet window. Certainly both of mine from one had one nap at nursery and at home that worked well.

If she’s over a year I would be a bit stricter and just put her down and leave her for a bit even if screaming. A child that young who wakes at 5:30 will need a good nap and good sleep breeds more sleep. I know some kids drop their nap very early but both of mine needed a nap until 3.5 (and the 4 year old often falls asleep after lunch on a weeekend)!). I think we try and reduce day sleep too early for children in the UK.

@WhatsHoppening my issue is that her screaming has no off switch. She will quite literally continue until she is sick :(
You're right though, she 100% still needs the nap because if we're in the car she will definitely doze off! I just don't want to create a habit of always going for a ride just to get her down as I'm expecting my second and that won't always be possible. And the fact that just a couple of weeks ago she would go down fine- she just goes through these annoying phases but this one's lasted particularly long :(

Just reading through this thread and I'm so glad to hear someone else say this!! My son is 16 months and doesn't need much sleep per 24hrs. He's totally fine on 12hrs a day, nothing like the dream amount @FATEdestiny suggested sadly. However it's absolutely crucial he gets the right amount of sleep at the right time otherwise he's a total nightmare to be around.

Last week he was sleeping through 10.5hrs over night post-night weaning and taking a nap of 1.5-2hrs in the middle of the day. Then a trip to my mum's threw everything out. Rubbish naps, meals and activities at random times and he's become a horrible tantruming mess and waking more in the night again or having one long wake. We're still trying to get back on track a week later.

My mum always has little digs at me about it being silly that I care about naps and having meals at the sane time each day. I hate routine myself so I get it. But my ds really needs it and eats and sleeps much better with the right routine and is a joy to be around rather than a nightmare.

This really made me chuckle!

I’d drop the nap! Fine if she goes off in the car etc but stop fighting it and live your life! What a waste of time trying for two hours?!! If you want to try, try for 15 mins and if it’s not happening just get out and do what you planned to do.

she’ll probably sleep longer in the mornings too

I say plan your lovely days out and dc will fall asleep if/ when they need to or like pp said arrange the play dates so the drive home would be a good naptime.

I had a friend who from when baby was born til age 3 would refuse to leave home at specific times (every day) so baby could nap. It became obsessive and didn't do her (or baby in the long term) any good- she missed out on loads.

Don't overthink it or every day involves a sleep battle. Enjoy time out and about with baby- this will relax you both and make naps happen naturally.

When mine was a baby/ toddler we had days/ half days everywhere. Sometimes it would mean a sleep in the car or they'd fall asleep when we were walking around the zoo or shops- mostly always chilled as I was!

My boy is 20mo and we've just been on holiday in the countryside for 2 weeks so have been able to have the same routine each day and he slept the best he has ever slept.
It seems like the magic wake window for us is 5.5hrs, 2hr nap, 5.5hrs to bed.
He can go longer and does with our normal week but this magic formula (and maybe a love for the travel cot?) had him sleeping till 7am which is unheard of.
I would try and have the same routine every day. Also, what's not to love about nap times at home, is the only break I ever get! My boy only sleeps in his cot for naps.

My first child was one who slept 12 hours at night and 4 in the day at 18 months. So it is possible. Definitely an outlier though - I know a lot of people with similar aged children and most of them sleep a maximum of 2 hours in the day and 11-12 at night. My second child is more of an average one. They are very different in their sleep.

One of mine fought naps at 18m, she was still tired, so I strapped her in a pushchair and walked for 1/1.5 hours 😂 Sometimes she slept, sometimes not, but her body got a break.
I was also queen of routine, it really helps.

Thanks all for your responses. This week has been absolutely horrendous is terms of sleep. Lots of split nights and wakings so I'm just going to wait for whatever this all is to pass before trying anything new. I think it's teeth.

In terms of plans, I just do stuff in the morning or afternoon. She only naps at home and I just work with that really