4 month old NEVER been put down

[Spindletop]

I am at a loss with our babies sleeping.

We have tried from the day we brought her home to get her to sleep in her next to me, doc a tot, Moses basket, swing, bouncer.
She will not be put down.
I wouldn’t mind the daytime atall as I love the cuddles but the night is now getting to us and mental health is suffering.
Every night my husband sits in the nursery holding her on a little sofa from 8-12.30 ish. Usually there will be frequent wake ups and resettling by bouncing on a ball. It’s exhausting for him.
He then passes her to me in our bedroom where I attempt to Co-sleep after breast feeding her. ( husband goes to spare room) She feeds almost constantly throughout the night and stirs all the time, checking I am right there next to her, if I have moved slightly away she will wake up and cry so hard until I give her the boob back, and so it repeats and repeats. ( have tried dummy ) I am a terrible sleeper and even though I am totally exhausted I very rarely manage any sleep atall. So I get an hour or so in the evening and maybe a couple in the morning before my husband starts work, 4.5 months of 3 hours max sleep is taking its toll now.

Every night feels like a battle and even tho our routine is ridiculous, The thought of getting her to sleep and trying to put her down in her cot or next to me feels really overwhelming as we know exactly what will happen within a few minutes and then we will have to start the whole getting her back to sleep cycle again.

I don’t know what I’m asking for here, I’m just at a loss!
Has anyone had a similar experience?
Will things get better? Will I have to sleep train? I’m reluctant to do it, especially at 6 months as going from co sleeping and being held her entire life, to being put in a cot snd left just seems crazy and I just can’t see how it would work, when she cry’s it’s not normal like other babies it’s 0-100 rash all over face, screaming so high pitched, floods of tears she can’t breathe, sometimes sick.
My husband is at total breaking point and is trying so hard but we both feel like total failures. Why is it so impossible for us to get our babie to sleep well 😪
Thanks for reading I just needed to get this out!
Any advice welcome, Thankyou

Yes it will get better. It's such a difficult feeling when they don't sleep. Does she nod off in the pram when you go for a walk? Hopefully there will be someone with answers posting soon. I've been there before and you just feel like crying all the time yourself but it got better and I didn't realise when it did. Things sort of fizzled out and changed.

Have you tried formula before bed in a bottle?
I haven't tried it personally as I didn't bf any of my children but all my friends that bf did this.

One friend was in a similar situation with dc 3 she said the only thing that helped was taking away the boob all together though I doubt that would work for all babies!

In exactly same boat with mu 4 month old so hopefully someone will be along with advice.

One thing I have started in last few days is lying ger in next to me whilst awake with no expectation she'll sleep but just to get her used to it

Oh no, sorry you’re struggling. Sending hugs (and sleep) your way 💕 No advice really, we very much went the opposite way with the whole sleep thing so I read Gina Ford when pregnant etc 🙈 I know it gets a bad name but I didn’t do any of it exactly and he still isn’t in his own room (7 months). Not what you want to hear because he’s the opposite but I think he was born also having read the book because he followed it so well. I’ll never put him down if he’s crying but he’s just settled into the routine of how things go at bedtime and at most will go into his cot then suck his thumb overly loudly til he falls asleep (max 5 minutes later). During the day naps can be more hit and miss but I can tell by the pitch of his cry whether he actually wants back out or if he’s about to start sucking his thumb and go to sleep. Not that you want to hear about my child but I do think she gets a terrible rep when actually it does work if you take the bits that suit you/your baby and just use the general idea of it. It does have a whole load of case studies in it where she tackles issues like yours. I’m sure it must be about the most common problem there is! I think it is just a case of very very gradually increasing how long she spends in the cot and building it up. I’d imagine it does get harder to do as time goes on and they get more in the habit of being held 24/7 so you’re not at a loss just yet, you will be able to at least establish a routine at night time that will allow you to have a proper sleep I’m quite sure. Good luck!

I found there was a point after they nod off when you can move them successfully.
Warm wherever you are going to put them with a hot water bottle. Use a sheepskin or fleece blanket instead of a cotton sheet.
Make sure there is enough room for their limbs in whatever position they choose. Mine both slept in a Moses basket. But I have on occasion left a small sleeping baby in the middle of a double bed with nothing else on
you have to persist sometimes they will only sleep for 10mins before you do it again other times it’ll be a couple of hours. It’s hit and miss
I did use a dummy but didn’t find the bedtime bottle worked.

That sounds horrendous and I don't know how you're still standing. Weighing up the risks to your health and marriage, I have to say that I don't think your baby is going to perish if you don't pick them up every time they cry. You may think I don't know what I'm suggesting but I do. N

Every night my husband sits in the nursery holding her on a little sofa from 8-12.30 ish

You really need to go to sleep these hours. That plus the odd hour here and there will get you to 6-7 hours of sleep.

It does get better, my first was like this wouldn’t lay down at all, I was so exhausted I was falling asleep sitting up while breastfeeding. By 11 months she started sleeping through 8-8 and still does (she’s 2). Try focus on daytime sleep, I always find they sleep better at night if they nap well during the day but don’t just let her sleep on you keep trying to put her down. Also could family or friends watch baby for a few hours so you can get some sleep?? Good luck xx

OP, I am a mother of four dds and was breastfeeding at four months. I was able to get into a routine where they were fed no more than 3-4 hourly and placed in their crib afterwards. I ensured a full feed was given before they settled for the night so that they were not feeding constantly throughout the night.

If dds had fed and woke during the night I would gently pat them back to sleep, without being tempted to feed. I figured that feeding constantly throughout the night, rather than say 3-4 hourly would lead to them constantly waking for small feeds.

If the breast is available all night there is no reason for your dd to get into a routine as she is being fed and soothed at the same time. This may be fine but it just leads to you getting no proper sleep and feeling exhausted.

Is she gaining weight?

Have you thought about taking her to be checked by an osteopath who specializes in babies?
Sometimes their little bodies can be slightly out of alignment, especially if they (and you) have had a difficult birth.
When there is something to correct, I have seen it work like magic.

I realise this feels overwhelming but it is really very common. I was feeling the same disbelief at this stage but realise now that some babies simply have higher needs at this stage and it will get better. If you can crack co-sleeping so you can rest at the same time that will help a lot. If/when you are comfortable putting baby down on side might help. Swaddling. More layers than is recommended when you feel comfortable as the temperature in most houses drops a lot at night. White noise constant. Blackout blinds. A nice warm bath before bed. Make sure nappy is right size. Explore any intolerance if nothing improves by 6 months. It will get better x

I think elements of sleep really are luck/baby's personality. Having said that, I did do similar to previous poster where I basically didn't offer milk more than 3hrly over the night time from about 12 weeks. The only real exception to that is my DC2 is 5mo and he seems to have gotten in to a routine where he has a feed around 6am and he wakes for this even where his last feed was only about 4am, so there's only a 2hr gap but if this happens it's because he's slept right rough from about 8.30 til 4 in the first place and he will often settle straight back to sleep again after the 6am feed so I have decided in this circumstance it makes for an easier time to feed. Which we've learnt from experience as otherwise it takes DH ages to rock him back to sleep and then he wakes after a very short time wanting to be bed anyway e.g. 20-40 mins.

We've used dummies with both babies and I feel they've been essential to their decent sleep. Both my babies have woken much more frequently in the night than I fed them, we just pop their dummy in and often they go to sleep. I would persevere with this, neither of mine were keen the first time, I introduced early and kept offering and they gradually got more attached to them. You could try different types.

I don't find formula has any impact on their sleep, at least not if they are pace fed. Both of mine have had both and it's not made them sleep longer.

Re getting them in their bed, I think it's just going to be about trying over and over to put them down and they will get used to it eventually. I don't mean leave them to cry, but this is where a dummy is so helpful because they still have that comfort with them even though they are alone in bed.

For milk I also recommend trying to get as much in them in the day as possible. I feed roughly 3hrly in the day and he has a long cluster feed of about an hour before bed. Also neither of mine have napped anywhere near they 'should' in the day which is not for want of trying but I'm just saying that because a lot of people think if they don't nap well they won't sleep well overnight which hasn't been the case for my two at all, likewise people often suggest getting them to nap in their beds to help them with overnight sleep but for me neither of my babies would really be put down for naps but both have slept overnight in their beds without too much issue.

Thankyou very much all for your helpful comments and suggestions, really appreciate it.

Some more info ;
I do try to get to sleep when my husband has her, I just only ever tend to get an hour as I struggle to sleep, I guess that’s a whole other problem in itself.

I did have a fairly traumatic birth and she was in NICU for a week and on antibiotics.

I have seen a cranial osteopath for three sessions as I heard it helped with reflux and colic. This was when she was 2 months old, the reflux has only just started to ease off.

Luckily she will sleep in the pram and contact naps on me work well do her daytime sleep usually equals 3-4 hours.

She is gaining weight following 25th centile.

I have seen a lactation C who tweaked a few things when reflux was bad but in herbal feeding is going well. We now do a bottle of either expressed or formula milk before bed.

GF has been much discussed on here because of her approach to breastfeeding, especially in the early stages.

I also did Gina Ford with dd through desperation as dd’s sleep patterns were all over the place and I wasn’t coping. The neighbour recommended GF to me. Dd absolutely loved it as long as I did everything to the letter.

I only started when dd was a good couple of months old so breast feeding was already established and as you have already established breastfeeding it could be worth a go.

Craniosacral osteopathy might also worth trying.It’s a really gentle therapy but you would need to see someone experienced in treating babies. The birth process can cause a lot of trauma to babies and this treatment looks to relieve tension in the skull, neck, shoulders and spine. I have read several posts in the past on here from parents, who say they have had really good results and a much happier baby.

It will get better. Saying that doesn’t help now, but it will. I co slept with my second who was the same. I think he slept for ablut 1 hour combined in his next to me cot in a whole 6 months! He would only sleep nestled next to me on the bed. It’s their natural instinct. But I was lucky I managed to sleep like that (safely).

Just to give you hope…. He’s nearly 2 now and is sooooooo much better at sleeping than my first child was at this age( first child was bottle fed and a shit sleeper so I don’t think it’s a “because breastfeeding” problem!) I still feed him before bed, put him in his bed, read a story, say goodnight and go. He falls asleep himself and usually sleeps through.

You have to do whatever you can to get through this bit. Sleep in the daytime when your baby does too if you can. Forget the housework.

Cross post about the craniosacral osteopathy. I hope this will yield results.

I just thought about my experience. I was ebf and also did the gina Ford expressing thing described in the book where I gave dd a bottle of espressed milk at 11.30 pm or whatever time the schedule said for her age. This kept her settled for much longer and reduced / stopped the night time wakings.

Ps just seen your second comment about your LO struggling with reflux. Glad that has improved a bit. Mine did too and I definitely think that’s part of why he slept so poorly. He grew out of it (can’t remember when but I think it got a bit better at about 9 months and lots better just after he was 1year. It’s not a thing at all for him now.)

Not sure if anyone’s mentioned it but are you aware of cluster feeding?

@Niahm

Not sure if anyone’s mentioned it but are you aware of cluster feeding?

Cluster feeding doesn't happen every night for 4 months though

My first DD was exactly like this and it was hell. The only way I got sleep without her literally on me was co-sleeping. I had to wait ‘til she was in a deep sleep and then very slowly and carefully move her down so she was in the crook of my arm by my side, still against me, but on the bed on her back. I then rolled onto my side and got into the safe co-sleeping position but it was all very slow and tentative! If she woke I’d just pull her towards me again and feed her on our sides. I did resort to trying sleep training when she was about one. Tried a few different ‘gentle’ methods but we never got passed the first night with any of them. Hours of angry screaming with no sign of sleep at all. She was a stubborn one! For us I think the constant feeding came from her tongue tie. She had it snipped quite early on but by this point she was already used to milk on tap and she was still a very slow feeder. She never ‘finished’ a feed and if I didnt feed her it would take DH an hour of rocking to get her to sleep and she’d wake as soon as he moved. Nap times were all on me too until she was around 6 months and began to nap really well in her pram (after much pushing back and forth). Other than in the pram or car she never ever just fell asleep on her own, despite me doing exactly what various books said. ‘Drowsy but awake’ was not a thing in our house. There was ‘drowsy but awake in my arms’ then there was ‘wide awake glaring at me or screaming’

Things did get better on their own though. I can’t remember exactly when but I went back to work when she was 10 months and while there were still frequent wake ups I survived so was obviously getting more sleep by then. By toddler age she would go to sleep in her own bed but come in to us in the early hours without waking us. I’d wake in the morning in the weirdest positions or with her completely planking on top of me! She’s 4 now and goes to bed like an absolute dream, only rarely coming to us and that’s usually if she’s had a nightmare. She still prefers someone with her while she falls asleep, but that takes a story and 5 minutes these days. She’s still extremely stubborn, but a lovely, happy and clever little girl.

My DD2 is nearly 3 months now. I’ve done nothing different with her but she’s slept 3-4 hour stretches from the start. The Moses basket is still a bit of a joke but she will tolerate being put down and co-sleeping is a breeze. Feeds are 10 minutes and done. It reassured me that DD1’s poor sleep was, as I suspected, not my fault at all. Just her personality. It’s nothing you’ve done and it will eventually get easier