2 year old still awake (11pm) - at the end of my tether

[MarriedAtLastLight]

Please - any advice would be gratefully received.

My 2 year old won’t sleep until 10pm or later. He does sleep until quite late in the morning (8am) as we have a childminder who comes to the house, so he doesn’t need to be up early.

It’s not so much the late bedtime but the amount of time it takes to get him to sleep. For example tonight I took him up at 9pm after an earlier bath and bottle downstairs and he is still awake now.

Bedtime routine is usually 2-3 books and a song, bath every other day.

Screams when put in cot, usually we lie on the floor but recently we have been lying with him on floor or bed. I don’t want to get into this habit and think we should start putting him in the cot and leaving the room, but he gets so distressed.

I know we are lucky to get a lie in, but we have no evening together and most of it is screaming as he fights bed.

I’m just so tired and fighting back tears myself now. He is playing with a white noise toy right now.

Does he nap during the day?

It’s awful for a few days but got to wake him up earlier in the morning.

Yes he naps around an hour at lunchtime, although today was later so that might explain the late bedtime. If he misses his nap he falls asleep at 6- but then wakes a lot overnight!

I will try and wake him up earlier, I leave for work at 6am when on a day shift. Also work nights. So often it’s not me doing the sleep routine, it’s my DP who doesn’t seem to mind the late nights and long bedtimes so much!

If he’s not getting up until 8am then 10 hours sleep is enough for some kids so it’s not really that unusual. I favour my evenings (and we have to be up early for work anyway) so DS goes to bed early and wakes between 6.30 and 7.

If DS woke at 8 then he wouldn’t nap until after 1 which would mean waking up after 2 which would mean a 9pm bedtime which is a big no no for me. He’s got to be awake from his nap at 1. So it really depends what you want from your days/evenings!

There seems to be a separate issue of bedtime. Is there a wind down time? And i’d advise once you are upstairs you stay upstairs rather than go back downstairs at all, so once you’re upstairs that’s bedtime.

Start cutting back on his nap. Limit him to 45 minutes for a week, then 30 minutes for another week, and see how it goes. Would he nap earlier in the day if given the opportunity?

Does your nanny (not a childminder, they work from their own homes) take him out every day? I would ask her to have him out of doors for at least a couple of hours rain or shine. Get some waterproof overalls for him if he doesn't have them already. And a waterproof hat. JoJo used to do some lovely comfy ones. Have at least one of those hours of outdoor play be in the afternoon after his nap. Don't underestimate the power of fresh air and outdoor exercise in correcting sleep problems!

You need to shift his routine back by at least two hours. He should naturally be waking/getting up about 6am, not 8am, and therefore bed would be two hours earlier too. You are getting him in to really bad habits by letting this carry on, as he will have to get up eventually for school.

What time does he have his last meal, and what is it? Does he have bath, stories, milk etc in a nice quiet, low light setting?
A normal routine would be supper about 5pm, then up for bath/bed routine about 6pm, this should be very relaxed and snuggly, then milk/bed at about 7pm.
I used to be a Nanny, and have two boys myself, who ate now 6 and 9 and I have moved the routine on an hour, but it's still fairly similar.
Children love routine, and it works in your favour too. Don't let him nap later than midday and for no more than an hour. If he doesn't sleep til 12.30 or 12.45 then still wake him at 1pm.
Hope some of that helps.

8am is way too late for a child his age to be waking up. That's like an adult waking up at noon.

@Abouttimemum we try and wind down with a quiet game downstairs or some CBeebies bedtime story. But wondering if should just have TV off in the hour before bed.

I suppose if 10pm is reasonable for 10 hours sleep, maybe the issue with bedtime is I’m trying to make it too early?!

@SuperSocks I’ll try that with the nap. Not sure exactly with nanny on timings, but when I have him we go out every morning rain or shine (we have some of those overalls which are excellent!) but good idea about the afternoon post nap, as he can be a bit slow to wake up, it might be just what he needs!

My kids did this. It was horrible. Things that helped include

• more chatter / cuddles / time with parent in the day
• more physical exercise in the day - walking & parks
• v consistent routine bedtime with a visual story pinned up on the wall
• no extra chatter / social interaction after bedtime. I would stay nearby & let child cuddle me but then I'd lead her back-to-bed with no chat. I spent a long time playing on my phone by the child's door to be nearby but not an interesting plaything.

Poor you, OP.

Suggestions, for what they're worth:

No naps at all (mine dropped naps around their second birthdays).

Earlier mornings (sorry)

Earlier bedtimes (your husband will have to put up with enforcing this!)

@Swifey40 's post is pretty much what I did with my DC when they were little.

And absolutely no TV for at least an hour before bed!

Good luck...

I think you mostly have to have a trade-off at this age. Evenings to yourself but early starts v no evenings but a lie in.

DD is in bed about 7 but generally up at 6am. I think you'll probably have to think about whether you want the evenings or lie-ins more. If you want the evenings then it'll take a few days of getting him up early and it might be a bit miserable for everyone but will hopefully work out in the long run. If he's still napping he's getting about 11 hours sleep per 24 which is fine really. DD dropped her nap at 2 but rarely goes beyond 11 hours overnight unless it's been a very active day.

My son is the same, he needs about 11 hours sleep. Assuming he has no nap he goes to sleep about 9pm and gets up about 8am. He stopped napping at about 2.5 years old. Yes it means you don’t get a whole evening together but it’s just tough.

Our strategy was to get rid of the cot and get a bed, then focus on getting him to be happy in his room with a night light even if he didn’t go to sleep. He’s able to get out of bed and potter around if he wants then get back in. He used to get very upset about being put to bed but he’s ok now he knows he’s not trapped in a cot and he doesn’t have to go to sleep until he’s ready. We sit downstairs watching tv from about 8.30 and we can hear him chattering away in his room, it’s fine because at least we’re getting a break.

@Swifey40 thanks for advice- dinner at 530/6, varies day to day and also varies how much he will eat of it. Then some chill time downstairs with both of us, milk at 7ish then onto the potty, then a bath if it’s bath night. Usually don’t go downstairs after the bath but obviously did tonight. Try to start bedtime routine by half 8, which is half hour low light, in bedroom, reading favourite books, song then a cuddle and into cot. Then a hour of screaming, picking up, messing about before falls asleep at 10 .

Feeling a little out of control about it as I’m a shift worker so my partner does loads of solo childcare, I leave the house so early for day shifts and wouldn’t get back till gone 9am on night shifts so I’m not there to wake DS up. Need to get my partner on board, I do appreciate that.

@parietal @TheRideOfYourLife @Hugasauras @MaggieMooh thank you, those are all good ideas to try too.

I do feel better now I’ve unloaded, DS has dropped off but i was so wound up I couldn’t sleep myself!

Tomorrow I’ll try waking him a little earlier (maybe only shift by 15 mins), getting out and about outside in the morning, nap then again in afternoon. Then no TV an hour before bed and do some 1:1 play before a rock solid bedtime routine . Even if I just shift the timings by 15 mins, hopefully the other stuff will eventually make bedtime a little easier!

One of the quickest ways to shift his body clock is to wake him up earlier and make sure he is exposed to lots of natural light almost straight away. Black out blinds etc are great for getting kids to sleep on light summer evenings but they can keep bedrooms artificially dark in the mornings which reinforces a late body clock if they’ve already got into that habit.

No artificial light (screens) after 6pm either.