Should we try some sort of bedtime routine now?

[RGPargy]

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - DP and I are exhausted!

DD (3 weeks) has always slept very well during the day downstairs in her moses basket. However for the past 2 weeks or so from about 6pm she just will NOT go to sleep!! She is constantly crying/whinging and if she does fall asleep in your arms, the moment you put her down, her eyes ping open and we are back to square one. At first we thought it was colic, but now i'm not so sure as she doesn't bring her knees up when she cries, but will go stretched out rigid, the reason for which i am unsure.

This is all very well and good whilst it's the Xmas holidays etc, but we are aware that we have neighbours and DP will be returning to work soon too so we have to sort SOMETHING out to stop her crying from 6pm til 2.30am every single night!!

I am thinking that perhaps when/if she does drop off at that sort of time, to put her in her basket and then put that in her cot in her room so that it's more peaceful than downstairs with us and the tv blasting.

At the mo, all i can do is constantly BF her to get her to sleep but my arms are killing me from constantly holding her!!

Any help would be FAB!

TIA

(duty calls, must get baps out for screaming LO again).

Not sure about swaddling. DD hates her arms being restricted and always pokes them out of any blankets etc she has on her.

Last night was obviously still a little difficult. She fussed most of the night and in the end we relented and brought her back downstairs at about 2am. As soon as i sat down on the sofa with her in my arms, she zonked out and stayed asleep til 4.40am. Then she woke again at 8am and fussed til about 10.20am. Thankfully she's asleep now, tho for how long i have no idea. I'm exhausted!

So if she's hungry and wants to feed, why does she suck a few times and then throw her backwards in pain??!!! I wouldn't mind constantly feeding her if she didn't cry and whinge when she was nibbling. She doesn't do it all the time, but mainly when she's had a feed but is still going. I try winding, changing to the other boob etc but nothing seems to work.

Oh and i cant do other positions. I'm too fat and my boobs are too huge to even think about it! I have to press my boob in as it is to give her a breathing space or she's be forever pulling off for a breath!

Sorry, am feeling pants and emotional today.

I think my milk supply is plentiful - it's always oozing out of the breast i'm not feeding her with! Not sure if i have a fast let down so am trying to feed her with her kind of on top of the boob so that she doesn't drown in the stuff.

Dont have to faff around with latch or anything and always stay put once she's on so that's not the problem either.

Think it might be wind/colic/fantom screaming baby pixies but i have to admit that the change in position appears to be helping slightly, and i was also advised to feed from the same boob for 2-3 feeds which also seems to help a bit too, although this means she is feeding every 2 hours rather than every 3 so not sure how long i should keep that up for!

Sorry, crashing! Great advice thank you starlight! Must be interesting to train for that, hope it is going well!

My DD doesn't have the pain/colic thing, she just seems a very sloooowww feeder - BF adviser I saw said if she falls asleep while still latched on NOT to wake her as she is still mid-feed as it were - would you agree? She also suggested breast compressions to try to wake her and get her started again -sometimes this works other times she keeps snoozing - should I let her?

Oh, and RG I called La Leche the other day (NCT was just an answering machine ) and they suggested waking her every 2 hrs in the day and trying to feed more then - have you tried that? DD is asleep just now - into about 2.5 hrs - I'm torn between leaving her so I can get the washing on, or waking her to see if it helps tonight!

My DS was exactly the same at that age and I found it impossible to get him into a routine before 6-7 weeks. If I had my time again, I'd just go with the flow and leave trying to establish a routine till later. You might want to try positing in the bf topic - you'll get loads of good advice.

Starlight - I knew BF would be demanding but i spose you just dont realise how much! I'm looking forward to it getting better tho!

Caz - No i've not heard of waking her every 2 hours during the day. Wont that make her wake up by herself every 2 hours at night?

DP has taken DD out for a couple of hours if i'm lucky so time for some kip on the sofa.

Not sure!! certainly limits time for daytime naps which i am not sure about...guess it will either fill her up or set her in a terrible pattern....eek.

Hi.. The fact that she's stiff during these unsettled periods suggests maybe wind? It can get worse in the evenings after building up during the day.

Things you could try:

Watching how she latches - especially if you think you might have a fast flow / oversupply of milk right now then she might be taking on excess air as she tries to cope with the flow. Keeping an eye on how she's latching on might help, meanwhile it may well settle down in a few weeks when your supply adjusts to meet her demand. Check the www.kellymom.com site for some useful resources.

Lots of winding during and after feeds. This is a good site for techniques: www.healthvisitors.com/parents/wind.htm

Infacol or similar can help, you give before a feed and it helps them expel wind more easily.

Sometimes when my dd has a miserable tummy she feeds and feeds in short bursts because it gives her short term relief. Over the long term however this just exacerbates things. If she's very unsettled, and seems like she should have had enough milk maybe try some other soothing tactics - winding, a sling, getting your dp to take a turn, that kind of thing - before feeding again.

Of course, sometimes it is just hunger. Thats the thing about babies, you think you've got yours sussed and then they have a growth spurt, or just grow older and change all the rules. Its very annoying.

CAZ 10 - used a sheet after reading baby bliss by Dr Harvey Karl, it was difficult to start with and DD hated having her arms restricted but if I did it tight enough and then did a sort of jiggy rock she would be asleep and stay asleep. I was so tired I would have tried anything. I would swaddle her tight in a sheet then either nurse her or rock her if I knew she was full. She did that whole pulling away as she wasn't hungry just knackered!!!! I did invest in a swing and that was like the 'sleep machine'!!!! I left her in next to our bed all strapped in and covered up all night when she was tiny. The world must seem huge after the tight, warm confines of the womb!
RGPargy - know what you mean about big boobs, mine went up to a 32J when DD was about 3 weeks old! Found putting DD on a pillow when lay down then using top boob easier??? I found feeding easier at night when she was swaddled, she may hate it but it might be worth a go as you will end up exhausted. Plus I promise in 6 - 8 weeks time you'll be glad you haven't got to get up and heat bottles. You'll just whip em out! I found joining a BF group good, sometimes texted those other crazy people who are up at stupid oclock when the rest of the world seems to have disappeared.

taliac - thanx for the link and the tips re winding etc. Some good tips and advice on there!

AVG - i'm deffo gonna find a local BF group for support i think. I have no idea about what size norks i have atm. I think they're around a 44F or something. All i know is that they're collosal!!

Feeling much better today after DD gave me a 5 and a bit hour stint of sleeping last night, then another 3 hours after a feed. Hoorah! Longest bit of sleep i've had in a month!

Thanx for everyone's advice and kind words yesterday - i was feeling on the edge a bit i have to admit, but the sleep has sorted me out today.

thanks starlight - and WOW RGPargy 5hrs, I am sooooo !

DD was AWFUL yesterday, wouldn't latch on, wouldn't settle, crying all day, this went on ALL day I was zombied...however to make up for it she slept 3hrs then 4 hrs after a feed last night so she is not going back to the shop just yet...

Starlight, BFC was from The Breastfeeding Network, dunno what they are like as compared to anywhere else?

We've got a freedom sling, they're meant to be wonderful, but the one time I got DD into it she screamed like a banshee until taken out!

sorry, very muddled reply but very muddled brain...I was also told e.g. left breast for full feed, then if she wants it right breast for "top up", then next time start on the right. DD takes both breasts, every time, for AT LEAST 20 mins each...is this ok? and if so which side do you think i should start on for the next feed?!

[why is there not a confused smiley?]

thanks again!

we'll get there i'm sure! just setting myself wee targets, eg if i can get to sunday that's a month etc.

every time i've "loosened up" things have improved - in the hosp i had to write down when she fed, how long for, what side on a chart - don't laugh but i kept doing that at home, kept loosing my "log sheet" at 3am and getting upset

chucked that out then started timing each feed on a clock...

so now trying to go with the flow and guess what it's better!

was ready to buy bottles this time last week and not tempted at the mo...

RGPargy just looked at your pics - my DD is EllA and has lots of auburn hair too!

Hi girls

Starlight - no chance of me putting DD on formula! I'm enjoy BF far too much to even contemplate that. It's just so convenient to whip out a boob than have to think about making up bottles etc.

Caz - sorry you had a crap day the other day. Are things better now? How spooky re the names and auburn hair! Especially as we've also got the same name too (well, i'm a Carol - cant remember if you're a Carol or a Caroline or summat..... )

I also was advised to write down DD's feeds when i complained that she was constantly feeding in the very early days. So i wrote down the start and end time of each feed and this particular night i was feeding constantly through the night with about 5 minutes between each feed (if i was lucky!). I showed the midwife the next day when she came on her home visit and she didn't make a fuss about it or suggest formula or anything. She just said that it was something newborns do and not to worry about it and to rest when possible. It was so reassuring to know that it just happens.

Incidentally, last night when DD was fractious i put my little finger in her mouth and she sucked away on it and instantly fell asleep! Today the big guns have now come out - the dummies! She's been upstairs for over an hour now and has woken up once with a loss of dummy, but this is the longest evening sleep stint we've had in a long LONG time!

I'm keeping EVERYTHING crossed that she stays asleep til her next feed at 10pm.

Oooh what kind of dummy do you have RG? DD spat hers out furiously the other night, I was gutted! But it has quite a big teat and I have weensy nips..

Much better day today, phew....lets see what the night brings...your day can really swing on one good or bad 3-4hr period can't it?

Starlight, she was on a 12hr blood sugar protocol thing, had to wake her every 3hrs to feed cos she was small birth weight - but I was in hospital 3 days and they said to keep it going..

aaargh i hear crying....

Caz, I've got the Avent orthadontic (sp?) ones in 0-3 month size. Perhaps you could try a different brand of dummy or get one specifically for a newborn. The size of the teats can differ hugely! Good luck!