running out of ideas -- i ended up putting ds2 on his tummy to sleep last night -- what would you do?

[Tutter]

he (5mo) is a serial flapper/scratcher/flailer

until now has been swaddled for all naps and at night - any attempt to put him in a grobag has ended in him waking every 30 or so mins

even swaddled he is a shocking sleper - wakes between 3 and (10?) times a night - sometimes needs a gentle stroke to get back off, other times has to be walked around for half an hour

needless to say, am shattered

last night - in desperation - i plonked him on his tummy. it took him a minute or two to figure out to turn his head, then he settled straight off

we brought him into our (mahoosive) bed so i could keep an eye on him, and we had a better than usual night

he still woke several times, but i could get him back off with a bottom rub or head stroke

what do you think? am i mad to consider this as a permanent option?

I didn't do it but dd was happy sleeping on her back. I do know 2 lots of people who did because their babies wouldn't sleep any other way and it was from a much much earlier age. They did get the angel care mattress (they were in their own cot too).

At 5 months it won't be long until he's rolling will it and then he'll lie whichever way he likes ?

Poor you tutter, dd has never been a great sleep so I can sympathize, its awful isn't it?

Is he rolling yet? I think my HV said that when they can roll, it is a lot less risky putting them on their front. I remember dd slept loads better when she slept on her front and it was from about this age. It used to give me a fright though!

Both of mine slept on their fronts from very early on - it was the only way.

After DS1, a shocking sleeper, i put DS2 and DD on their fronts. I was quite anxious at first but it was worth it. After alll, it was only a few years ago that the advice was to put on fronts, wasn't it?

If he can roll then I wouldn't worry too much about it. You could try putting him on his side as a compromise -- DS sleeps best on his side although he occasionally rolls onto his front.

he has only rolled over when nekkid

so, can't use that excuse yet

have to get comfortable with it on the basis that he stays that way for the time bein, tbh

my compromise might be to put him on his back, in his own room until we go to bed. then on his tummy next to me

at 5 months he must be strong enough to raise his head, so if it works for you I would do it. I think tummy sleeping is much more dangerous for newborns and very young babies with no head and body strength.

I did it for dd as it was the only way she's sleep more than 1 hr at a time.

It has to be said, all my children slept better once they were old enough to sleep on their tummies. Some babies do seem to prefer it. I can imagine what state of desperation you must be in if you are woken as much as 10 times in the night. How close is he to rolling over? I was told once they can roll over, sleeping on the tummy was OK, but I don't know if that advice is current.

given that no-one's scared me into not doing this, i imagine we'll repeat the tummy thing tonight...

Hi Tutter, I have a DS the same age as yours who is possibly just as bad a sleeper as yours. He starts the night in his cot in our room but always ends up on him tummy in my bed as it is sometimes the only way he will settle quickly in the wee hours. I must admit though that while he drops off quicker, he still wakes as frequently. Good luck though from a fellow bleary eyed mum.

Could you maybe turn him over once he's deeply asleep? We used to put our daughter on her side to sleep and then roll her on to her back.

franke - it was the only way I could get my boy to sleep too.... on his front..right from newborn...

I've been co-sleeping with DD since birth, and she has turned herself over onto her side and then her front since she could roll (3 months). Now (at 6.5 months) I want to move her sweet little self into the cot, but if I put her down on her back she roars bloody murder. So just now for the first time I actually put her down on her tummy in the cot, rather than waiting for her to figure out she could roll over herself. Fell straight to sleep.

I'm too scared to move away from her side, but she is sound asleep, and in the cot! Clearly, this is how she wants to sleep.

For what it's worth, I don't think the SIDS risk lessens because they can roll or lift their heads. No one knows why back to sleep works, really. There are theories about breathing in too much CO2, but it is still a medical mystery. Researchers just found that the risk drops dramatically if babies sleep on their backs - they're not sure why.

SIDS advice is also that you should never leave them alone while they nap, even for short periods. Which in practice means no going to the toilet, no nipping to the kitchen for a cup of tea, etc, not to mention what you do about your other kids while you're watching the baby sleep three times a day! That is, it's totally impossible to follow to the letter.

Tutter - I know lots of people whos lo would lonly sleep like this. I never did it and DD was a shocking sleeper. She rolled very late (10m?) and as soon as that happenned she slept on her front and her sleep improved (along with lots of other things we tried!). I think some of them are just happier like that. Keep an eye on him and see!

I too have known several mums who have defaulted to tummy sleeping. I think at 5m it would be ok if your mattress is firm.

Funnily enough they put premature babies on their fronts to sleep since it increases the amount of oxygen they take in.

Do what ever works for you! MY DD was slept on her side form about 6 weeks which helped her sleep better for longer now I can't put her on her side (6.5months) she goes on her back and rolls to her front. You have to do whatever works for you! We have a movement sensor (Angel Care) monitor and your not supposed to use after 6months but we still do just for peace of mind

i can am so relieved to finally have discovered a convo about sleeping (this is my first post)! my 11mnth baby boy is a really bad sleeper same as tutters boy, it leaves me like an unrecognizable monster when i'm really tired

cocobear - fek me i didn't know that advice re not leaving them alone while napping. If I'd followed that I'd never be washed

tutter - if mine would sleep on his tummy, i'd put him on his tummy. Whatever works for you.

A few questions:

• Does anyone smoke in your house?
• Is your baby in normal weight range?
• Was his weight average at birth(not underweight)
• Was he premature?
• Is he lifting his head off the mattress when you put him on his tummy?

If nobody smokes in your house, and if your DS is within normal weight range, and if you have a hard mattress,I think 5mo is old enough to put on tummy. He will roll over soon enough anyway. There is always a risk of cot death, maybe you can do a research on it to help you make up your mind.

My DS2 has been sleeping on his front since he was 5 mo.

My ds has only ever been able to sleep on his tummy and has done so since he was a couple of weeks old. I am aware that you aren´t supposed to but he wouldn´t sleep any other way. When he was tiny I checked on him ridiculously regularly even through the night but no longer do (he´s 8mo). That´s how he likes to sleep..

Message withdrawn

My first 3 all slept on their tummies anyway - it was before the back to sleep campaign and was the done thing at the time.

DS2 (DC4) started out on his back but was def sleeping on his front by 5 months. He slept on a lambskin too - bad mother alert!