Sudden change in sleep habits for 8 month old - issues with rolling over and getting upset or 8 month sleep regression?!

[Heb1986]

Hello!

Been endlessly searching on threads for help. Mum to a wee boy who was 8 months last week. Aside from the first few months he was a good sleeper and generally slept through the night although tended to be an early riser. He sometimes woke in the night and we’d give him a bit of milk before he then lay in bed chatting for 30/45 mins and then fell asleep till morning. He has always hated being on his tummy so rarely rolled until a few weeks ago when he began crawling. He’s now started waking in the night, rolling over and either getting in the crawl position or just lying there on his tummy but either was is in a total state crying. Sometimes he doesn’t roll over but just wakes crying. We would go in and turn him onto his back but he’d be in such a mess by this point it could take 2-3 hours to settle him back down. He now is waking 4:30/5 regardless of how many hours he’s been up in the night. I’ve tried settling him for sleeps on his tummy and he will eventually fall asleep like that but then wakes, planks or goes into the crawl position and then gets extremely upset-almost like he can’t easily roll back. We’ve also tried rolled up towels under his fitted sheet at either side of him to try and stop him rolling over but he strangely seems so determined to do it, even though he hates it, so ends up rolling on top of them. We’ve also tried just leaving him but it’s not the sort of cry you can leave I don’t think - he’s properly hysterical.
We’re trying to stick to the same routine - first nap around 8:30/45 for 30 mins and second nap around 12:30/45 for anything from 1hr 15 - 2 hr 30. He’s asleep for 6:30 - seems early but a couple of months ago we moved it from 7 to combat the 5am wake up, which it did.
I don’t feel we’re going in too early in the night to either settle or turn him - it’s proper almost newborn crying, gagging because he’s so upset. I know this will end but it’s exhausting and I feel so fragile during the day. I know it’s not his fault but struggle not to feel so frustrated with him. I know I’ve been very fortunate having a pretty good sleeper up until now which is maybe adding to why Im struggling. Has anytime gone through this or any ideas of something to try?

Bump/help!

We had sleep regressions like this for both of ours when they started rolling over/crawling. Think it's almost like they are processing their new skill at night. With both it was two weeks of waking up etc then settled back down.

Happened later on though with other new skills. Then when my DS2 learnt how to climb out of his cot.

As pp did I used to feel when my lo had split nights it was developmental. As she be awake 2 hours or so. I used to let her practise as much as possible her new skill in day. But still got it.

Generally I left her to it. If my lo isn't upset I would leave her be. But then my lo self soothes.

Other reasons are, not enough calories in day. Overtired, undertired.

Also may be worth taking a look at naps. I would tinker with them when she had a couple nights split nights to see if that helped.

Thanks so much @Bobbybobbins and @Fancyties for your replies!

I think it’s most likely a sleep regression as the timing fits with being much more on the move and the overnight wake ups are due to rolling over on the whole. He usually self soothes, it’s only the last 2 weeks that’s changed overnight when he wakes but maybe we’re needing to work on that if things don’t go back to normal soon. If he was happy I’d leave him and always do if he’s initially ok but he gets really upset very quickly and hadn’t get managed to get himself back to sleep after rolling over.

Trying to let him practice the rolling but if he’s ever on his tummy he immediately pushes up and starts crawling - guess that’s more interesting the rolling! Sure he’ll get the hang of it all soon.
How would you play around with naps @Fancyties? Feel like I’m a bit obsessed with timings of naps and for how long etc but try and be a little flexible and adjust them slightly if I think he’s particularly tired or not tired enough but tend not to adjust more than about 15 ish mins.

What are nap timings now?

I generally had a good look around at what others suggested for naps and went from there. We went by huckleberry at 8 months. We recently changed last 2 days 😆 as she was becoming a bit erratic with her naps and unsettled at bedtime and morning. Which usually means for my lo I need to relook. My lo is always changing for naps.

And yes your lo will master the skill soon. My lo one night tried walking around in her cot. She's in a sleeping bag, she quickly realised it wasn't possible so does it all day instead 😆

I looked at the huckleberry ages ago but have a feeling they’re slightly different timings to what I’m doing. I follow a couple of schedules I’d seen online - naps are roughly 8:30/45 for 30 mins and then 12:30/45 for varying lengths, can be around 1.5 hrs up to 2.5 hrs.
Haha yeh the walking in the cot would be tricky, like a sack race! He’s pulling himself up a bit so hoping we’ve just got a whammy of rolling, crawling and standing and will be done with the regression for all 3 in 1 😆

What time is lo getting up? Is it 530am continously?

It was usually 6/6:30 with the occasional 5:30 since we changed bedtime from 7. When it was a 7 bedtime he started waking 5 which is why we moved bedtime earlier because I thought he was overtired. Just in the last wee while since sleep has been all over the place he’s woken at 4:30-5 regardless of how much he’s been up in the night and most times theres no amount of settling that’ll get him back down.

Personally. I would do first nap at 9 if not a bit later once lo got used to the 9am. As it apparently can encourage early waking. That first nap I would wanna be a minium an hour. 30 mins morning nap is quite short and may be causing a bit of overtiredness by end of day which apparently shows in early morning wakeup

Thanks @Fancyties I’ll try a longer nap in the morning. It did used to be a 9am nap regardless of wake up so it didn’t encourage an early start and catch up nap but he was really struggling to stay awake till then when he woke at 4:30/5 but I’ll persevere with it. Baby sleep is complicated 😂

When my lo has an early start which may be once in blue moon now. Regardless she doesn't go down before 930am and only for an hour, it's only way to stop the 530am wakeup for my kid.

😆 I know its so hard! And then when you get it sussed it doesn't work that way continously.

I went through this recently with DS. As others have alluded to, a lot is going on at this time in their lives: learning new skills, starting solids, teething, not to mention separation anxiety, which kicks in around about this time too. If he’s inconsolably crying when he used to self soothe, it could be that as well as the rolling.

For my DS it was all of the above. On the really bad nights, after the third wake up, I would often resort to bed sharing just to get some sleep myself (he’s BF), though I appreciate that doesn’t work for everyone. On the advice of a friend I also started giving him a more substantial evening meal, which I noticed seemed to help him sleep better (not as hungry I guess - though the jury is out on whether filling them up actually helps them sleep for longer).

At 10 months, almost overnight, my DS’s sleep went back to how it was before, with one wake up (he has slept through maybe three times in his life) and managing the whole night in his cot.

It’s so so hard, but a lot of the time it’s a case of telling yourself that this too shall pass. (I wanted to slap people who said that when I was at the end of my rope with sleep disruption, but it is often true).

Oh yes as pp said. Nice big evening meal. If your giving dinner at say 4pm. They will wake early. I give my lo dinner at 430pm. She's not into snacks as she wants proper food. Then I give a supper of weetabix with milk at 6pm then milk at 630pm then 655pm she's always liked her milk it in two sittings. Started helping 5am waking as she started to do again atb10 months

Sorry for my delay replying - had some family things we’ve been dealing with plus trying a slightly altered routine.

The 4:30-5 wake ups have continued. He’s been teething and some nights to calm him down we’ve given a little milk and this has made him sleep longer but on the whole he doesn’t feed overnight. Regardless of wake up time I’ve done his first nap at 9am - this is obviously a reeeally long time for him to be awake if he’s woken at 4:30/5 and so far hasn’t made a difference with the wake up time yet. Shall I persevere? I’ve let him sleep as long as he likes which is usually 1-1.5 hrs and then he has a second nap 1/1:30 - the second nap is usually a bit longer and generally the naps total 3 hrs. I also pushed bedtime back from 6:30 to 7 since he was awake later from his new 2nd nap time. I’ve also started supper and have been surprised how much he’s eaten. Should I cap naps? Or aim for 9:30 for first nap, which would mean he’d been awake 5 hrs if it was a 4:30 morning?
Re co sleeping - he’s never been one for this although we’ve tried out of desperation some nights! It’s like he doesn’t see it as somewhere to sleep, so doesn’t! Plus he moves around his cot a lot that I’m not sure he’d be easy to contain even if he did sleep!
Also the rolling and screaming phase has stopped now and he’s just got used to sleeping on his tummy so is now sleeping through (7-4:30/5) unless it’s a teething night.
Thanks for all your advice, really appreciate it.

You might find things will settle down as his eating habits change as well. I found that the 'main meal' or 'dinner' at lunchtime helped and then a 'tea' at 6pm which was baby rice and fruit.
This will pass. If he's teething give him Calpol obviously because even if they aren't crying in pain there's enough irritation or tingling there to keep them awake.

Thanks! He gets a main meal for lunch and dinner at the moment and suppers usually pretty similar too! He’s not a breakfast fan - will only take a few teaspoons if we’re lucky.
With the teething he’s been pretty inconsolable some nights so have given ibuprofen or calpol and use Ambesol too which helps.

I would do 9 or 930am nap and cap an hour, then have a few busy mornings after nap. Go town, a group, visit family etc. It takes up to 3 weeks to change a routine and reset their sleep rhythm.

Thanks @ChittyBang1987! We’ve been doing a 9am nap but I’ve not quite braved 9:30 yet - it’s a long slog if he’s woken at 4:30/45 and he’s struggling to keep going but I maybe need to push him and me! Would you suggest capping the afternoon nap? We had a look back over the last few weeks and he tends to (very roughly) sleep 13.5-14 hrs over a 24hr period. I’m not expecting 12 hrs overnight, although that would be lovely, but was aiming for around 11 - 11.5 which would mean 2-2.5 hrs of daytime sleep, in which case I’d potentially need to cap a nap.

I wouldn't cap the afternoon nap unless goes to 4pm then I be waking them. Then you got a good 3.5 to 4 hours awake time before sleep. It be then morning one I would cap. Do 5 mins later every 3 days may help push the nap later.

@Heb1986 hi I'm going through the internet about the 8 months regression. My boy is currently going through what your little boy went through .

Can you please tell me your experience with the 8 months regression. Did anything help? I'm currently on day 5 with no sleep. My boy rolls on to his tummy cries the house down every 20 mins . Refuses to sleep on bed with us.