What else can I do?

[SequinCola]

Other than sleep train or is that it at this stage?

6mo baby did 5-6hr stretches until the week before he turned 4 months. Since then he's awake every hour over night. He has the occasional 2 hour stretch and once in that period he did 3.5 hours. It takes ages to get him to go to bed and he normally wakes every 20-30 minutes after bedtime until about 9:30pm.

In the day he naps three or four times, he'll usually sleep for 45 minutes, each nap but can be resettled for a longer nap.

I've started brining him into our bed because I'm less disturbed but I don't sleep well at all, my back hurts and my nipples are raw from him latching badly in the night. I don't need him to sleep through I just need fewer wake ups. How can I help him with this?

We've played with temperature, earlier and later bedtimes, wake windows, temperature/bedding.

He gets plenty of tummy/floor time, we go out for at least 30 minutes each day usually longer, we don't have any blue light in his room and no TV/screens after his last nap.

A typical day is:
7.15am (ish) breastfeed in bed
7:30am up
8:15am breakfast (just started this week)
9:15am upstairs, wind down for nap & feed to sleep
10am (ish) up from nap, feed (to try to start feeding after naps) - playtime/out/baby class
12noon ish (when showing sleepy cues): upstairs, wind down for nap & feed to sleep
1pm -2pm: up from nap, feed - playtime/out/baby class
4pm: upstairs, wind down for nap & feed to sleep
5pm (as late as 6pm depending on last nap time): up, feed, playtime with Daddy
6:30pm bath
6:45pm: PJs & Story with Daddy
7pm: feed to sleep
Anytime from then into cot... Tonight it was 8:15pm when my husband came in and managed to get him down. In that time he wasn't crying unless I put him in the cot, he just wouldn't go to sleep.

It's been 12 weeks. I don't want to sleep train, it feels wrong. I don't know if I believe the science and people I know who have done it still have lots of bad nights so I don't want to put us all through it. But I can't do this any more. I'm in my knees. I'm so angry with my baby and I hate it feeling this way.

I've been to the GP is perfectly healthy. He cut two teeth over a month ago so it's not that. He's happy when awake (he cries when he gets wakes up until we go to him but otherwise he's probably the happiest baby I know!).

What are my options? Do I have any?

I think I’d probably give it a month or so and then try the plan in this thread. I used it for my 2nd DC, although she was a bit older, and it worked brilliantly. It’d be great if you didn’t have to sleep train but a tired resentful parent is really not good for a baby. I was at breaking point through exhaustion so had to do something. It sounds like you are too, and sleep deprivation is horrendous

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/1394888-What-worked-for-us-Hope-this-helps

I'd drop the afternoon nap.

So morning nap for 45min-1hr

Lunchtime nap 2-2.5hrs

Then no sleeping from 2.30pm until bedtime, bang on 7pm.

That is a lot of naps at around 6 months they should be starting to transition to 2 naps per day from 3, should be awake about 3 hours between naps.
Try and get the day time naps spaced out and get to 3 naps and then 2 naps and hopefully night time should sort itself out.
Have a nap around 10:00/10:30 then the other one in the afternoon around 3 hours after they wake up and then bed 3 hours later.

Putting baby down for a 4pm nap is too close to bed time.

My LO (now 10m) was the same at 6m. Also breastfed and was used to being fed to sleep. Managed to sort the situation out over about 2 months by encouraging him to learn to fall asleep independently. The waking every 45 mins is them not being able to settle themselves between sleep cycles (because they expect you to do it for them by breastfeeding or however they start the night/nap).
So my strategy was to stop feeding to sleep (I expressed a bottle for the bedtime feed and gave 30 mins before bed) and try different methods like rocking, then shh pat, pick up put down and after a week he would lie down with a dummy and grumble himself to sleep. His naps gradually increased.
The night sleep was even more gradual but has significantly improved when I night weaned recently with sleep training methods.

Ok this is interesting - I've been basing the broad timings on Lucy Wolfe's book. And basically everything else suggests 3-2 transition around 8 months. We do sometimes skip the last nap but he's absolutely miserable by bedtime and still waking up.. I assume because overtired. Do you really think a 6mo can sustain a 4.5 hour wake window? I'll try it.

@ 6 months old my LO was doing 1 to 1.5 am. 1.5 pm. Then 30 to 45 mins cap nap, I'm only just dropping last night at 8 months. I must admit, if other two naps were good, I didn't allow last nap past 515 then bedtime about 8pm. I worked to 3.5 to 4 hours sleep day for her.

I think your lo has got used to you feeding to sleep so when lo wakes at end of cycle lo expects a feed to be resettled and not able to do themselves.

Right I get that he's waking up and needs support to go back to sleep. My question is how do I help him to not need us as much - it sounds as if it's cry it out or wait it out with the middle way being to continue bedsharing?

I'd give him more food too, I'd give him a small lunch and dinner too in my experience the fuller their tummy the better they sleep.
I used to give mine 1/2 a rusk and they'd sleep for 12 hours. X

I'd definitely say he needs more food, he might just be a hungry baby, mine ate breakfast, lunch and dinner at this age x

Hi, @SequinCola, I have no advice on getting LO to link sleep cycles unfortunately but just wanted to say that my LO is 7 months old and only has a 2.5 hour awake window (AT BEST) and still has 3 naps per day, similar to your LO so I'm not sure that daytime naps are the problem, sorry!

Thanks @MissLC I'm not sure they are either but just clutching at straws!

@lisaandalan We only started on solids on this week (he's just 6mo bit nearly 7mo) - I don't think he'd take more food at this stage, and how much difference is a tea spoon of milky veg going to make? But maybe when he does start eating more solids it will help.

I don't need him to sleep through, I know he's still too little for that. But if we could get him to do 3-4hour stretches that would be amazing.

I would definitely stop the last nap for sure.

If I let any of mine sleep at that time a bad night always followed. We used to call them micro sleeps. Even 5 minutes would ruin a night.

I think more solids to definitely. Try and introduce more solids, hunger could be an issue.

He is having lots of short naps in the day, same is happening at night isn’t it. He is getting older now, I would try if possible to drop the morning nap, keep him stimulated so he doesn’t get sleepy, early lunch with solids, milk and sleep.

Hopefully his nap time will increase because you kept him awake in the morning and he will sleep longer after lunch. No nap after that.

Start have tea all done by 5.30-6, bath every night so he understands bedtime is coming. Boob, bed.

If you are feeding in the night switch to water

Good luck x

@Workinghardeveryday are you suggesting trying to go to one long nap after lunch? Or have I misunderstood?

He doesn't really take a bottle and we've only just started trying him with a cup this week (again he's 6months and 4 days old so all the food and drink other than milk is brand new, sleep problems are not) so I don't think more food and water is going to be a quick fix. Maybe as another poster suggested the best thing is to give it another few weeks until solids are more established and then see how things are.

@SequinCola yes if you think you could get him to stretch to that. It sounds to me like he is having lots of little naps day and night. I just think it may be worth a try keeping him awake until after lunch with a full tummy, he should be shattered and hopefully sleep longer, that way he will sleep past his normal wake up time after lunch, making him cope until bedtime.

Just a thought, if it was me I would try it for a couple of days.

Regarding the food, you know him best so just go with what you think he needs 😁

Have you tried unlatching him just before he's fallen asleep so he goes to sleep off the breast? Also if you can try and feed him to sleep where he will stay asleep? We use a floor bed for this purpose. My ds started to be able to put himself back to sleep around 7 months. Still can't always do it but can sometimes, he's 10 months now. I started the unlatching thing during the 4 month regression. He often now feeds, then brings himself offand goes to sleep beside me. That and him not waking up in a lonely cot after falling asleep in my arm are the only things I can think that have helped.

Also regarding naps by ds hadn't fully gone to 2 naps until 9 months. The transition started at 6 months and we gradually had more 2 nap days. I really don't think that's causing your problems. Although the transition period is very frustrating as you have no predictably to your days for ages.

I really hope things improve for you. That 4 month regression was a real pit for me. We've also just come out of the 8-10 month one which wasn't fun but thankfully no where near as bad as the 4 month one.

Thanks all. Some food for thought definitely!

@LGBirmingham really considering a floor bed. Although getting him into the cot is much much easier than getting him into the next to me was I'm thinking a floor bed will make wake ups easier and make the next transition (cot to bed) easier/unnecessary! I didn't know about them until recently so we're giving the cot a go for now but totally open to the idea (maybe also because I've seen some cool ones on Pinterest and any excuse for fairy lights!)

The floor bed has been a complete game changer over here. I think it has helped with him putting himself back to sleep, along with the unlatching thing, but it has had most impact by removing the transfer to cot. No more putting him down for him to wake up and me having to repeat the whole thing! Bedtimes and resettles are so much quicker and no more post 5am cosleeping.

Our floor bed is just the cot mattress on the floor. During the 8-10month regression he became really active in his sleep and started rolling out a lot, prior to this point if he rolled out he would go back to sleep on the floor. So now we use a rolled up blanket under the fitted sheet as a sort of bed edge. I take it out when I lie next to him and put it back when I leave.

Another vote for the what worked for us thread, it's similiar to Lucy Wolfe's stay and support method which is basically gradual retreat. The key is not feeding to sleep at bed time, so feed before bath, and then for night wakes not picking baby up but reassuring from next to the cot and gradually decreasing the help you give. It's changed my baby at 8 months from waking every 2 hours and fed back to sleep every time to a baby who does 8 hours in a row. It's hard work and slow compared to other methods. But it does work and was minimally stressful for us and baby. I got to breaking point and couldn't cope any longer. The idea of long term bed sharing wasn't for me.

It really doesn’t mean cry it out OP. Have you had a read of the plan on that thread? The idea is you stay next to them initially to give them reassurance. You don’t just leave them alone to cry.
Looking again at your times I probably would try to push the first nap back a bit and see if he can manage it. I’d make sure he just has 3 not 4 and not let him sleep past 5.00 and try to bring that forward over the next few weeks.

If you’ve just started weaning then the answer is not more veg for hunger, barely any calories - it could be more milk though, mine had a total growth spurt and woke constantly for a couple of weeks around 6 months.

Definitely not 1 nap at that age either, but 45 mins that close to bed is likely too long. Try cutting down to 20-30 mins to start with, especially when you’ve managed a long lunch nap. Mine started going much longer at night when we dropped the last nap around 7 months without sleep training.

Hey OP, I feel your pain. My LO is similar and has woken frequently at night since 4month regression and is 9 months old now. I'm not sure there is a magic solution, although some people will claim there is. My baby still takes 3 naps some days so I would keep 3 naps going if possible. My LO is still a bit of a cat napper unfortunately. I was also told that more food / animal protein would help sleep. She eats loads now but sleep still not great.

I'm trying to work on self settling at bed time, with the hope that she'll get the idea the rest of the night. At the moment she gets rocked or fed back to sleep and we co-sleep at least half the night to try and maximize sleep. Doesn't always work mind. I'm hoping it's a phase and one night she'll magically sleep better. Survival mode until then... We've tried Lucy Wolfe's book. It has good advice but didn't help us all that much. Fell off the wagon though so might try again in a few months if things haven't improved.

Thank you all. Saturday was just a tough one and it got on top of me a bit! I'm hoping it will just click into place at some point and for now we'll keep putting him down in his own room at bedtime and then bringing it with us when I can't be bothered getting up any more! At least he's settling with his Dad better than he was!

Maybe by the new year we'll be established with solids and he'll be comfortable in his own room so we can try to push the self settling! Only six weeks away!