Unsettled from 2/3am - help please 😴

[HallieP]

DS - almost 11m.

Bed around 7pm - usually wakes every couple of hours but self settles for the most part. If he needs me then it’s usually a quick pat and “shhh” or cuddle and back down. This is until 2/3am where he wakes and needs resettled but from then on he is wide awake as soon as I put him back down 😴 Hes sound asleep within minutes of being picked up and will sleep soundly on me but the minute he’s put down he gets so upset. This has been going on about 3 weeks now and I am EXHAUSTED 😴

I feel like I’ve tried everything:

• have tried not lifting him at all at this wake and just resettling in his cot which works the rest of the night but from this point onwards it’s lift or he’s really upset
• he’s definitely not hungry
• doesn’t seem cold. We do live in an older house which does get chilly. For the last week I’ve programmed the heating to come on low at about 1am incase the temp was dropping and waking him but so far there has been no difference
• nappy is fine - he stopped peeing in his sleep at about 8months so usually stays dry until he properly wakes in the morning

I end up being up from 2/3am each day holding him while he sleeps and can’t do it much longer 😴 I start back at work in a few weeks too and need some time before he wakes up to get ready in the mornings.

What am I missing? Anything else I can try? I’m 100% NOT on board with co-sleeping. I know it works for many but I’m not comfortable with it at all so I’m not willing to do that.

Maybe he's sleeping too much during the day. Pretty sure 2 hours is all they need by that age.

@converseandjeans

Maybe he's sleeping too much during the day. Pretty sure 2 hours is all they need by that age.

@converseandjeans before this started his normal wake up was around 6am. His naps vary from day to day but are usually around 9.45am for 1h/1h 15mins then about 2pm for 45mins/1hour. I have him awake by 3pm or else he doesn’t go down at night.

So maximum naps during the day is around 2h 15mins.

he stopped peeing in his sleep at about 8months so usually stays dry until he properly wakes in the morning

This is far more significant than you seem to realise. It's a red flag to say baby is (significantly) dehydrated and lacking in fluids.

I'd say lack of fluids/calories over 24h is the likely cause for your unsettled nights.

That sounds about right. I agree with poster above about getting him checked for not weeing. He might have something wrong. Could also be teething?

@FATEdestiny @converseandjeans Oh really? 😳 I had it checked by the HV and GP and both said it’s absolutely fine. They said it’s perfectly normal in some babies - eventually they go on to not wee in their sleep, some just do it earlier. If he properly wakes up then he pees, just not if he just lightly stirs. He goes through about 8 very full nappies, takes about 22oz of formula per day, and loves his water with his 3 meals. Absolutely no other health concerns at all!

Meals in a day are usually:
Breakfast: porridge, weetabix, scrambled egg & toast - all served with fruit
Lunch - omelette (not if egg for breakfast), homemade veggie fritters, “picky lunch” of crudités, hummus, avocado, cheese, breadsticks, full fat yoghurt etc
Dinner: beef stew, curry, Mac & cheese, spaghetti bol, fish, chicken pie etc - all will plenty of veggies

He’s 91st centile and tracking well - eats until full at each meal and has milk on demand so I didn’t think hunger would be an issue!

The average age to be dry at night is 2.5-3 years. Early would be dry from 18m-2y. I maintain that dry overnight before 1y is more likely indicative of restricted fluids, if not medical reasons - which will in turn affect sleep quality.

My youngest child was a similar 91st centile chunk until she started walking. She was having around 1.5-2 litres of water/squash a day. Plus two bottles of formula.

They are all different, some children need/prefer less fluids than others. But dry nappies would be indicating a problem, if it was me.

@FATEdestiny

The average age to be dry at night is 2.5-3 years. Early would be dry from 18m-2y. I maintain that dry overnight before 1y is more likely indicative of restricted fluids, if not medical reasons - which will in turn affect sleep quality.

My youngest child was a similar 91st centile chunk until she started walking. She was having around 1.5-2 litres of water/squash a day. Plus two bottles of formula.

They are all different, some children need/prefer less fluids than others. But dry nappies would be indicating a problem, if it was me.

Yeah I was concerned about it too - hense the visits to the HV and GP - but both have the same answer so I’m not too sure what else I could do there? I could try another GP for their opinion. Both GP and HV said it was no issue because his nappy is full within 5 minutes of waking so he was still producing plenty. They said it would only be an issue if it remained dry.

Is 1.5-2l of water not a huge amount at that age? (Genuine question - don’t mean it to sound argumentative!). I’ve always been advised by HV that he should only be having water with meals until 12 months unless it’s a warm day etc. I do give him free access to a cup of water through the day and he does ask for it if he wants it but he’s not fussed for it much between meals at the moment.

My children have free access to squash throughout the day. I use 500ml breakers with built in straws, and keep them constantly topped up and accessible. So yeah, from weaning being established mine would get through 3 or 4 beakers a day.

@FATEdestiny are you medically trained?

@FATEdestiny Fair enough if that’s what you do 🤷🏻‍♀️😊 advice I was given by my HV and GP says that’s far too much.

@HushLittleDarling I appreciate your reply - but unless one sleep cycle lasts from 7pm-2am then I don’t think that’s what’s happening here 👍🏻😊 he manages perfectly fine and self settles until 2/3am and then wants cuddled.

@itsme1978 ❤️

I was just trying to help. You asked "what am I missing?" And in my professional opinion that's it. Feel free to ignore me.

I'm not medically trained (aside from first aid and safeguarding). I'm a sleep consultant though, been offering my help on Mumsnet for years and years. Have the experience of thousands of babies and children who have sleep issues. Feeding/fluids tends to crop up a lot as causes for sleep issues. But as I said, I was just trying to help.

Good luck.

I didn't mean my question @FATEdestiny in an aggressive way.....i was genuinely curious......
When I was at my worst in the fog of sleep deprivation, I posted on here and you responded......
I think the thing to remember OP is that when you ask for help on here everyone will give you their different opinions. That's normal BUT then often you become even more confused as to what to try
I got the advice of so many different "sleep consultants" and I was so close to snapping, but ultimately none of it worked and it just improved with age.
I so wish I'd not wasted so much of my time trying to find solutions when in fact it couldn't be solved......