Massive row with DP last night over controlled crying.

[star1976]

DS is 22 months and never slept through, was going to try controlled crying a few months ago but DP was totally against it and we had big rows. Decided to carry on getting up to give him milk in the night, as he went back to sleep straight after.

Anyway, for the past few weeks, DS has been waking any time from 11pm and then screaming (with no tears) for no apparent reason (doesn't even want his milk).

To allow the other to sleep either me or DP has taken him downstairs, and it got into a habbit that EVERY night one of us was ending up sitting downstairs with DS, him happily playing for a couple of hours, then crashing out on the floor.

Obviously we are both shattered as we both work full time (even though as a childminder who works longer hours than him he doesn't think I have a proper job).

So last night I tried controlled crying.

He screamed (on and off, no tears, just noise) from 11:20 till 12:20, then slept for an hour, then screamed from 1:25 till 1:55. Then slept till my alarm went off. Which I think is progress.

DP has had a right go at me and thinks that I am cruel and 'blah blah blah' and I have told him that I am doing to again tonight and I know that we are going to argue about it.

Am I right to keep doing it????

keep doing it.

i have DD2 who is 26 months. we are at the same thing, milk in the night

we got tough with her 2 months ago, she stopped in about 3 nights. Then she got a cold, wasn't sleeping well, we gave in to her demands for milk and we're back where we started again.

Last 3 nights have been refusing her milk, just shush shush back to sleep. First night was terrible, second night better, last night she slept through.

Honestly, be strong. you don't have to ignore him, just go in, say "shush shush, sleepy time", rub his head or whatever and go back to your bed. Don't let him get up, don't get him milk. Leave him for a bit longer each time before giving in.

Maybe don't called it "controlled crying" it sounds so mean. I call it "sleeping through bootcamp"

Good luck!

Its very hard when they are crying in the night, I find night times the worst.

I think so. I've had problems with my 13mo waking up in the night lately and I've tried all sorts of shush and pat techniques and gradual withdrawal techniques and all that. They just enrage her. So now I go in, check all is well, put her back to bed and leave.

She screams but she is fine and it's over much more quickly than the other methods which offer her a bit of attention - enough to keep her awake - but not as much as she wants (full play time) therefore end up doing more harm than good.

Sorry, new to this mumsnet stuff!
My daughter has been sleeing through the night and then was ill and now is getting up around 4am every day! Its knackering me! But not sure if teething pain or just wants me, this morning I tried to leave her to see if she would go back to sleep but after an hour of moaning, I gave in and we got up! what am I supposed to do ? it's a bloody long day from 4 till 8 pm bedtime!

oh i don't bother with the shush shush for long, just a couple of shushes, a 2 second rub on the forehead and say night night sleepy time!

stay consistent
say the same thing each time
make sure it is always the same person

those 3 things make it much faster with DD2.

Definitely keep at it. It worked in 3 nights when my DD2 was 18 months old. We used to go downstairs in turn too!

DS just 7 months and still bf in the night but intend to try it with him too when he is a bit older but I can foresee DP (new partner since DD) having major issues with it!

Good luck x

You can't keep getting him up in the middle of the night or he will think it is normal and okay to do it.
My strictest rule was always that they can't get back up once they are in bed, except obv in puking circumstances or other emergency etc.
Once he realises he will get nothing he will stop, it is just habit. I do the hard ass (with bucketload of guilt) no eye contact, no talking, lie her back down and leave again routine with DD2 who can be a bit of a bugger, and she is okay. She actually plays up for longer if I stay in the room, shushing or whatever, than if I do this.
You will have to be firm with your DP and insist it is for the best, maybe agree to try it for a fortnight, by which time you should see huge results providing you are firm and consistent.

The first time I put her in I snuggle, do the shush, stroke head (not for long) etc, I am not harsh, but after that I mean business and she knows it. Just so you don't all think I am Hitler at bedtimes

BandofReindeer, You have found the same thing as me. Me being in the same room doesn't help. I am now going to stick to my guns and carry on doing the same as you - big kiss and cuddle, lie down, leave the room. DD usually gets up and screams but I am going to stand by that rule.

So, do these babies go to bed like 8ish in the evening?? this is all new to me, mine is nearly 8 months old and hasn't been the best sleeper! I got to the stage where it was enough and we did cold turkey and started putting her to bed at 8pm, after that things were ok for a bit, but she keeps playing me up ??? I don't know, she isn't waking for food or nappy change and doesn't seem to be in pain so I guess it's just I am awake mummy lets play ? Do you reckon I should just try to leave her for a couple of days and see what happens??

Are you sure the screaming isn't 'night terrors' which then transmogrifies into playing once you wake him up?

Night terrors is very odd - and started with DS when he was the same age. Vehement shouting, often v repetitive, eyes open look awake, not responsive to being soothed - and in fact we found that any intervention just made him more agitated and prolonged the outburst.

nah, the crying shushes once I touch her, or soothe her, but start again when trying to leave the room. This morning she was very awake and it was very hard. I left her and left her until I had to give in.

sorry m and j didn't read your first post
Yeah she seems more pissed off when I stay in the room NOT getting her out, than if I go in repeatedly and lie her back down. Don't think I even leave her a minute before I go back in, maybe 30 secs (mainly cos DD1 is in there too, tho she seems to fall asleep even during enraged screaming now) I just go in, lie her back down, blanket on and leave again. Eventually she gives up. I had huge guilt attacks at first and stayed in longer only to have it make her worse. Do it now and after a few times she goes off.

LOL at CV comment. I still get the guilts sometimes as I stand outside her bedroom door, agonising about it

Tiger DD2 does that, but at about 5 something, I am hoping it is teething and not normal bhvr. I left her but find she just gets worked up. I try the repeated lying down then too, and sometimes it works, sometimes not, you wil be able to tell.
I have heard that if you go in and wake/disturb them an hour before their usual time they will then go off and sleep thru that time, as it can become a bodyclock habit. I am too chicken to try it tho as I am afraid she will then get up at 4 something, but think I will this morning. 5 something kills me, feel for you with 4 something. I also can't leave her too long or she wakes DD1.

sorry, Tigger

well at leave it is only 1 dd! not sure if I can imagine 2 babies at the moment! Maybe I will try tomorrow if she wakes then leaving her and seeing what happens. Bandofrein, does yours seem in pain when she wakes then ?
Mine seems to have been teething since she was 3 months old, thats when we first noticed the spots in her gums, but tiwce they nearly came through and then she was ill, hoping 3rd time lucky! i really don't want her to think that it's normal to be up at 4!!

Heheeee, DD1 is nearly 4, but DD2 is 16 mths and seems to be teething all the time. I get a few days off after they cut then she starts again. Didn't get anything with DD1, only a slight disturbance for 1 or 2 nights as they actually cut thru.
No I don't think she is in pain particularly, tho I think maybe they bother her enough that she can't drop back off.

well i have to say its nice to chat with people with similar problems.
think i will leave her tomorrow and see what happens !
thanks x

Yes, that mad CV woman has a lot to answer for.

Although, let's keep some perspective, if there is not even sufficient evidence
to outlaw her OTT, 'IT needs to learn who's boss' methods
then I really don't think any of us need to have a guilty conscience!

star, don't stop now! Ask your dp to give you 3-4 more nights.
If you cannot see any improvement, fine, back to the drawing board
but it sounds like you and your lo are on the right track!

Good luck!!

I agree with Tipex. I could not have done CC if I had not had the support of my partner. It is hard enough and stressful enough without adding to the stress of falling out. We both wanted to give in and stop it but we kept each other positive...and thankfully it worked and we have never looked back. It is not something you should be doing on your own. But I bet if it works your dh will appreciate having a child who sleeps all night!!! Wonder if he will thank you for it!!

i was talking about cc with some mums at DD1's class today.

despite our differing opinions on it, we all agreed that when they get to age 2 and they are shouting at you for milk (or in my DDs case "microwave" to make it hotter) then you have to get tough and they have to realise they don't call the shots. Not when it means that neither you nor dh are getting enough sleep / not able to share a bed etc.

It's not a small helpless baby being left to cry here. It's a child who is yelling to get what they want.

btw, i am very anti cc in babies.

Can't remember exactly when we first did cc with DD, but would guess at around 8 months. It was a case of frequently returning, just drawing it out minute by minute. I think we did it twice and she soon got into a great routine. Don't hate me, but DD is now 22 months and, since using cc, always sleeps through from 7-7.

I agree that you both have to be behind it and I understand why some people are uncomfortable with it, but I will not do anything different with second baby due in May.

Good luck

I think we established early on that

I had this with dd 17 months old. We did Baby Whisperer stuff which worked. She was awful for 6 months before this.

Go in room, lay him down, or put him back to bed, pat him say "night night" and leave. If he screams (which he will) go straight back in and repeat process. Do this until he stops crying, it may take up to 3 hours first time, but you are with them rather than leaving them to cry.

Dd's behaviour improved within 2 weeks. By third week she was sleeping all night, after months of hell.

You sound like you are making some progress, this method is just gentler than CC, which when I tried made me cry as well.

Don't give in, even if you think it's not working as it is a bumpy ride at first.

But it does work. Honest!

Star1976 - I'm in a similar position to you with my DD2. Lots of very loud screaming from 12:30 - 5:30, it's not that my DH thinks I'm cruel leaving her it is just that he cannot stand the noise so I end up with one screaming baby, one screaming older DD, one screaming, swearing DH and me trying to keep them all happy.

DH went away for a few nights last week, and I took the opportunity to leave DD2 to scream pretty much all night (had the neighbours complain). Three nights later she started to get better and now we all get more sleep.

You are right to keep doing the CC, you cannot go on like this and if he thinks he can get away with it your DS may wel carry on like this for a long time. I would look at it as your duty to teach him that bedtime is time in bed. It's hard enough to do with support so I wish you luck and lots of support (and sleep). Have you spoken to your HV about this? Mine has helped me a lot with the problem (at 16 weeks pg I get pretty emotional about it all and I know I need to be consistent - blimen hard at 3.30am!)