GF CLB new born 2 1/2 weeks - waking 5am

[agaazaa]

Been using GF since birth - blackout curtains, formula fed, all great until 2 nights ago. DD woke at 2 and 5. Tried GF stretching out 10.30 feed until 11.15pm. but she still wakes at 2 and 5. Have a battle to wake her at 7 to stick to routine. How do I drop 5am?

DD only 2 1/2 weeks old, but don't want to start bad habits.

Strewth, kkgirl, I can't imagine what that must have been like. I find it hard enough with a toddler and a baby. I take my hat off to you.

My agument with Gina Ford (and believe me this is taking all my self restraint...)is that you can't prescribe for babies in this way. Just like adults, babies are individuals, with different feelings and needs. A 'one size fits all' policy wouldn't work for all adults, so why are we so willing to believe it will work for all babies?

This woman doesn't know your child, she doesn't care about your child, and has never even loved a child of her own. Why do you think she knows better than you whats best for your child? Trust your own instincts. Trust your child. She knows when she needs to sleep, when she need to feed and when she needs to be cuddled. Just love her.

I don't understand why people take GF so seriously, it makes me very sad

Ooooh, it's all happening again!

Anais, I'm with you.

Anais : What about respecting other parents' belief and needs.... and not pass on your own beliefs as what is right....
At the risk of repeating what others have said in the past Gina has no kids, neither does Jean Liedloff the guru on attachment parenting... so what makes HER a better expert ? The fact that she lived with primitive tribes ?
Live and let live... And Agaazaa is looking for advice/support not judgment !

Agaaza - Try to relax about this I am sure your DD will be all right, she is just VERY small give her a bit of time. How has she slpet in the past 3 nights ?

Bossykate - why do we all get abuse like this when we follow GF???? Would it be because others can't accept that their way is not necessarily the the way ... ;-)

I followed GF and I am proud of it, it was hell for me sometimes but my 3 kids slept and still sleep VERY well (far better than most others) and it makes me laugh when I read posts which criticizes mums who follow GF.
There I said IT !

As I said earlier I haven't looked at any of her books so I can't judge, she obviously has some helpful information, but unless you have had children you can't know what it is like and they don't perform to order. I know I was one of the daft ones who paced the floor with babe in arms night after night only to put him in his cot and have him start crying again. But I tried controlled crying for about 10 mins and it was me doing the crying. I must admit I hardened up pretty quick when I had the twins!!

quote -
"why do we all get abuse like this when we follow GF???? Would it be because others can't accept that their way is not necessarily the the way ... ;-)"

What about BABY'S way?

Tracy

ooo err I'm staying out of this but will watch from the sidelines

oooohhhhhh!
I love gina threads. I was getting really bored and going to go to bed.............

Will I get bashed if I said I followed Gina a little bit during the day but not at all at night with DS1? I just let him do his own thing totally at night. With DS2, the CLBB is still in the bookcase, but I just can't be bothered with routines in my current topsy-turvy state. I found it good when I was a first time mum and didn't know what to do with all the hours in the days.

definitely must merit a bashing from someone, somewhere, I'd have thought, Droile

Pupuce and Thewiseone... are you the same person? Have wondered for a while. Understand if you don't want to say.

The reason I didn't follow her sleeping bits was the 'baby should be awake and feeding no later than 7' business. Sorry? WAKE a sleeping baby? Nooooooooooo. DS1 used to lie in till 10 am if I was lucky. I got more sleep with him (with breastfeeding breaks) than before I had him. We used to sleep the clock round. Ah, those were the days. I'm getting my comeuppance now though, as you can see from the new thread I've started. The little bugger won't go to bed AT ALL until our bedtime!
Right, I'm bored now, no-one's fighting, I'm going to bed. Blimey, I've got sad lately ..........

Like I said I cannot judge GF as I have not seen any of her books. Everyone has their choice of what to do and we all need help in those early days when its all so new etc, but I believe with all things you have to be flexible. Life is never the same once you have a baby, you have to make sacrifices and do things you wouldn't have dreamt off before you had them.

I feel that I have to come in here ... and this may be a rant...

Traceyhay ... you are so lucky that your children are such contented babies without your having to do anything but feed them. It is very hard for me, even now to hear about babies that sleep 10 hours at 7 weeks and that they did that on their own.

I struggled with a screaming baby, who was on the breast constantly and never slept longer than 1 or 2 hours at a time in 24 (and then would be awake screaming for two hours) for 9 weeks. I was on my knees ... I wanted to enjoy my baby, I wanted to be happy and let him do what he wanted but I was suffering from exhaustion that fast became severe PND. I was ready to give him away and put myself away. I hated him and resented him and still feel very bad about that

My sister bought me the GF book (she was, at that time, childless) in a desperate attempt to help and it saved my life. Within a week my son was a happier baby, within 2 weeks he was lasting 3 hours between feeds, within 3 weeks he was sleeping 8 hours at night and by the time he was 16 weeks old he was sleeping through the night and he was thriving. I was getting some sleep and I was able to begin to love my baby.

Please, please, please don't knock those of us who use GF. My sister now has a 7 week old baby and she has no need for GF, her baby is contented on her own and sleeps 8 or 9 hours at a stretch - yet my sister sees how valuable GF can be for some people.

I can not tell you how much it hurts that my son and I could not have had the happy start that my sister and her daughter have had, but we didn't and we needed help. Don't make us feel that we are bad mothers for needing that help ...

will stop now as I am now a bit upset ...

Agaazaa - sorry to hear you're having a hard time with dd esp. as she's your second child. I do agree with TracyHay on the GF issue - I didn't even know about her with my dd (13mo). I just trusted my instincts and went with them. Yes it was hard getting up every 2 hours (sometimes more) to feed but dd wanted it, so she got it.

If I were you, I'd chuck the book for a while and see how you get on. Be calm, be prepared for sleepless nights (surely GF babies don't sleep through the night every night anyway!) and just listen to your instincts. Bad habits certainly won't start yet and even if they do later, they are changeable I'm sure. Hope things improve soon.

As an afterthought ds was b/f, dd is formula - there are bound to be differences between them anyway so I wouldn't even begin to think that she might be the same - every child is different - allow her to be so.

Melaniespeaking - please don't reduce the minutes you b/f your child - baby will tell you when he/she has had enough, it shouldn't be the other way round.

Agaazaa - amid all the opinions you have had some quite good advice. I don't think there is any need to chuck the book out but would think you can be slightly more relaxed about this second waking. Although I haven't used GF myself I think there is something to be said for some routine for a baby.

Like others have said both you and TracyHay are actually quite lucky that your babies are sleeping well. Just to whinge about my own DS - who was feeding 12 times a day at 6 weeks of age. Although now at 20 mo he sleeps unbelievably 11.5 - 12 hours at night and 2 hours in the day. The only problem is that sometimes he will wake up cold because he has knocked the covers off.

Agaazaa
Don't chuck the book out, just be a bit more relaxed about using it. Get the feeding right and the rest will follow. Before I get criticised for letting my baby starve I (and I think lots of GF mums) didn't just feed at the times stated to start off with. dd would get fed at GF's times, and whenever else she couldn't be distracted and wanted food. She very quickly only wanted it when GF said she would.
TVWoman - Yes GF babies do pretty much sleep through every night. I have had only 2 night wakings since dd was 12 weeks (now 5m) and that was with a very bad cold.

The GF way IS my babies way. I think Non GF mums imagine that we are all cruel tyrants who never let our babies do what they want. It's not true. By gently nudging dd into a GF routine from the early days she has now made this her own routine. Babies don't know that day is wake time and night is sleep time. In fact as I'm sure we all remember from being kept awake by kicking babies, the exact opposite is true. If we don't teach them, they will not learn.

Rant over.

Useful advice section - Bozza - have you tried a grobag?

Obviously GF is working for some, like ghosty but what bothers me is those it's not working for getting upset by it. These comments are what put me off this GF book.

"I had tears this morning with my husband as he said the routine (GF) is clearly not working, and he let her sleep at one point when she was meant to be awake. Not the end of the world, but this morning I felt like it was. "

A book should not be causing stress like this. This is a happy time in a family's life. When you look back on your child's life do you really want to have memories of trying to fit your baby to some book that has caused tears?

"Have a battle to wake her at 7 to stick to routine. How do I drop 5am? "

Never wake a sleeping baby!! Mad!

I know I am lucky to have "good" children (although i believe they can't be naughty at this age) I'm sure it's because I am relaxed about it all. Children pick up on stress, when I worked my son became very upset and had tantrums alot (when i actually saw him) I eventually gave up as i missed him so much. He was happier instantly because I was. If you are worrying about getting a feed done on time and having a nap in the right place then baby will pick up on that stress.

Tracy

Tracy - I think what you are saying about stress passing on to the child is very true and certainly something I need to keep reminding myself. However I think putting the blame on Agaazaa's tears entirely on Gina Ford/routines is a bit simplistic. Surely the first couple of weeks after birth are often a teary time for mothers.

Prufrock I have thought about a grobag and think I would have been well advised to introduce one sooner. But I wondered how he would take the idea at 20 months?

I read a similar book to GF and adapted it to my own needs, wishes and baby. I also didn't introduce it until 6 weeks when bf was established and I was "used to" my baby. I don't believe these routines are meant to be set rigidly in stone as every baby is different.

Agaazaa, I looked at the CLBB when DS2 arrived as so many people had thought it wonderful and there was no way on earth it would have worked with my eldest son (2 yrs older than DS2) thrown into the equation!! I gave up on it then and there.

For what it's worth, my "routine" was, during the day, they got fed (bf) at 3 hourly intervals (no less than 2, no more than 4) and had a "feed play sleep" cycle (note, not play feed sleep!!) the thoery being that they don't then learn the "feed" as being a sleep trigger and learn to send themselves to sleep. In the night, they simply got fed when they woke - I never woke a sleeping baby at night!! The result of this with both my boys was sleeping through at about 3 months and it's been pretty much hassle free sleep wise since.

The book we read and my DH swore by and I took with a pinch of salt and just used the basic principles was Babywise. It didn't have the rigid timed routines of GF which many find... I was going to say "abhorrent" but that's not quite what I mean, it's too strong! I can't hink of the right word though - sorry! If GF works for you then great, if it doesn't, try to adapt it (or find something else) so it does work for you. 2 1/2 weeks is still to little to be in a routine in my opinion and it soulds like Agaazaas DD is doing fine to me.

Anyway, this is just my opinion.

Agaazaa, as someone who's babies slept thru' by 12 weeks, without GF (so I guess i shouldn't post here huh?), my tip would be to just give yourself a couple of weeks to see what type of baby you have. She might be a fantastic sleeper/feeder without applying GF timetable. 2-3 weeks is just too young to tell! This sleepless period is when the booksellers rub their hands with glee as we desperately look for the magic answer. Its only a few weeks/months of our lives even tho' it feels like hell at the time. If our expectations were less maybe we wouldn't get so stressed?

BTW I did read GF 2nd time around thanks to this website - and I do think the key is routine, its just a question of finding the one to suit you and your baby, not applying one from the latest fad...GF undoubtedly matches lots of babies routines, but I honestly can't believe there is only one patern. I'm sure our hunter gatherer ancestors survived without it!

The weirdest thing about all of this is that you feel you have to apologise if your baby is a GF baby!!

The best thing about all this, is this website!!

I know I've got a 14 week old child and therefore slightly hormonal, but I love everyone on it.

DD is my third child, and GF is really working for us, I am not forcing anything upon her, and thanks to coming to the site have realised you can deviate slightly without it being the end of the world.

Having said that I have also got 2 older boys, 8 and 5 and did fine without GF, both very good sleepers now, but had to do cc (Richard Ferber).

The only thing that Gf can take away is your own instinct. I love GF, but when things go differently than the routine, you must remind yourself that you do now how to cope with this situation as you are the babies mum!!!

Melaniespeaking - if you don't hve your instincts to rely on what do you have???? Your instincts are the most important part of the equation.

Sorry to be difficult, but no-one has actually managed to answer my point - how can one routine work for every baby? You wouldn't expect to prescribe a routine whcih would work for every adult so WHY for a baby?

I agree with tracyhay, these first few weeks are supposed to be such a joyous time, it seems terrible that they are being ruined by some woman's ideas of whats right.

For the record, my first child was very easy - he slept through at 4 months and has never looked back. It was still hard work, but no one said having a baby was going to be easy.

My second child is a whole different story! She is 18 months now and still not sleeping through! I am aware that this is my own fault for not trying to resolve things sooner, but I went on expecting things to sort themselves out! And now I'm just too tired to do anything about it! So beleive me I know about lack of sleep! One of these days I'll make the effort to rearrange her sleeping habits, but at the moment she comes into my bed when she wakes, and its lovely curling up next to a warm little body.

All seems very quiet on the sleep threads late tonight.
Everyone must be asleep.

Lol, not me, I'm back with a couple of things I thought of last night. Firstly, Thewiseone, I am entitiled to my own opinion, and I have as much right as anyone to express it.

Next, your comment: "At the risk of repeating what others have said in the past Gina has no kids, neither does Jean Liedloff the guru on attachment parenting... so what makes HER a better expert?"

Well, her method is based on what women have been doing naturally for centuries, trusting their instincts. Ms Ford's methods are based on....well, what? Her own, shallow experience. Hardly the same thing is it?