Bedtime routine with 3 kids

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Hello,

I need some suggestions for a more effective bedtime for my 6yo, please.

I have 3 boys 11yo, 6yo and 3mo. Before the baby arrived both boys would be in their beds around 7pm and asleep by 8pm however now the 6yo doesn't go to bed past 10pm sometimes even later as I am ebf I don't have time to do proper bath-bed routine as the wee one feeds almost constantly from around 6pm onwards.
The 6yo just won't go to bed, he gets up and comes down or tries to wake his older brother up (usually asleep by 9-9.30) or 'plays' with the noisiest toys crushing and banging upstairs. When dh tries to put him to bed he screams and swears at him, it is absolutely horrendous! He is tired and his behaviour through the day is appalling. I cannot abandon the baby to scream(as he's feeding) to accommodate his needs atm but I recognise that he struggles with the new set up and feels a bit lost and I try to spend as much time as possible with him otherwise. I'm really not sure what to do especially as the summer holidays are nearly over and he needs to get enough sleep for school.

Any suggestions much appreciated! Thank you

Could you not bathe the 6yo and the baby together around 6pm. Have an hour winding down, Reading books/ talking/ colouring or playing a board game (which you could do while feeding). Take both children to babies sleeping area (if there's somewhere for you all to sit) get 6yo to choose a book for them both, read book and put baby into bed/cot/basket then take 6yo to bed, give them a min to say goodnight/hugs/kisses. I used to then take baby back downstairs with me but older child needed to see that it was bedtime for both of them and wasn't missing out, hence putting baby to bed first.

Hi thank you for your suggestions, I tried to do it before- reading together whilst feeding and he settles, says good night etc and then is up 10-15 minutes later coming downstairs and the whole saga starts again. The baby's room and our bedroom( where the baby currently sleeps) are downstairs and the 2 older boys' upstairs. Bathing them together wouldn't be safe yet logistically- the baby can't sit up yet and the 6yo can be quite boisterous. Plus the baby is literally attached to me from 6pm until about 10pm (he sleeps through the night so clearly he needs this amount of milk to keep him full until the morning) I might steal quick 5mins here and there to go for a pee and brush my teeth but it wouldn't be long enough to be able to snuggle down with the 6yo. And he doesn't want his dad, in fact he's really not nice to him when dh tries to put him to bed.

It breaks my heart as I never used to have bedtime troubles with them and evenings were quite relaxed in our household.

I have always done bedtimes solo and it is a hard time! The big things I'd recommend are;

• even if the baby is there, make the big kids the focus at bedtime
• slings can be really helpful, even if your baby is half in and half out of a soft sling, it can still provide a bit of a 'hammock' to let their head rest while feeding and give you a free arm (a bf pillow can do the same, but my DCs always knocked it about and made it worse)
• your older DCs need a proper goodnight kiss, even if that means the baby does need to fuss for a few minutes but lying safely and in sight on a sleepyhead or in a Moses basket
• audiobooks are amazing. Your library may have some for free or I have an audible subscription, get them to choose some they like and use a Kindle or your phone with a sleep timer so they can listen for 10-30 mins (as appropriate for them!) while they lie in bed. I put the playing device on a high shelf with a password they don't know so they can sneak screentime or make it keep playing

You know this already with 3, but this time does go really fast, so do what you need to make it through, enlist their ideas and support and be kind to yourself and them, you're doing a better job than you think

Sounds like dad will need to get involved more. It’s a lot for one person to do everything.

When kids get up when they should be in bed, super nanny says to put them back repeatedly until they get the message that they stay in bed. Star charts, rewards etc.

It must be hard to accept a younger sibling getting all mums attention.

I’ve no experience of it personally, but could you express milk for just one bottle of an evening and dad can bond with the new baby and you can have story time with the older ones?

Do the older ones not want their dad as he doesn’t do much with them? Perhaps there’s some bonding needed there too? Or does he have a harsher parenting style which you make up for by being softer? That never works so getting on the same page where both of you compromise slightly may help?

Mum of 4 here, with a current 6yo and 11yo. Plus I'm a sleep consultant.

I want to echo what the poster above wrote: even if the baby is there, make the big kids the focus at bedtime. Some other points to note:

● I don't know if I'm reading this/wrong, but your 11yo is in bed at 7.30? Thats/way too early. I'd expect in the region of 9pm-10pm for this age. So start with making life easier by rwmivibg eldest from the 6yos bedtime routine. Leave 11yo downstairs watching telly.
● Have something you can carry baby around in while doing bath/bed for 6yo. I used a bouncy chair (carry it from room to room), bounce if baby is upset. Sling works too, I never liked baby wearing though.
● Get DH to do 6yo bath time.
● Even though baby is with you at bedtime, focus your attention on 6yo. Proper bedtime story sat on your knee. Kiss when in bed and a little chat about how great he is and how much you love him.
● Hang around upstairs (with baby) for half an hour after putting 6yo to bed. He won't like being on his own. Even if sitting on landing feeding baby and scrolling on your phone. It's just half an hour and it will help him settle by knowing you're there.
● 11yo does his own shower/bath after 6yo is asleep.

Thanks everyone.

It's difficult to get dh involved more as he usually still works around that time. We did try for him to look after the baby whilst I deal with the other two but the baby just cries after literally 5-10mins as he's still hungry- he won't take a bottle or a dummy( according to my mum I was the same just wouldn't accept anything artificial in my mouth lol).

The 11yo is ASD so he prefers to go to his room and draw or read until he's ready to fall asleep, usually around 9pm, he also gets up really early- around 4am and always has done since he was a toddler but he's old enough to entertain himself so not really an issue.

I will try again sitting in bed with 6yo whilst feeding the baby but the issue is until he's actually asleep he just keeps getting up. He knows I'm up feeding so he doesn't understand why he can't be too.

Btw he's very attached to me as we don't have ANY family around and even more so since his gran, my mil passed away couple of years ago. So there's a bit of subconscious anxiety involved too I think.

It's really difficult but thanks everyone for your suggestions. Keep them coming