Calling all sleep experts: advice needed

[otto]

My ds is 8 months next weekend and is an awful sleeper. He rarely sleeps for longer than three hours at a stretch and often wakes more frequently.

A couple of weeks ago I started sleep training. I can?t do controlled crying as ds sleeps in the same room as dp and I, so I did a combination of pick up, put down and crying which worked straightaway and by the third night he slept right through. Then he become ill with gastro-enteritis, which lasted for well over a week, so I had to abandon sleep training.

I began again on Saturday, but decided to abandon the pick up put down in case it is confusing for him. Instead I stay near to the cot and go and reassure him every 5 minutes until he goes to sleep. It worked very easily on Saturday and he woke only twice during the night and settled straightaway. But last night was a different story. He woke up every hour or so and cried for around 10 minutes each time. I went through all the usual ? hunger, dirty nappy, hot cold, ill, but nothing seemed wrong. Is it possible that he is testing me to see how long I can hold out?

I have heard lots of stories about sleep training and most of them involve prolonged bouts of crying, but I have no experience of this frequent waking. The last time that I tried I got a result straightaway which gave me the strength to carry on with it, but last night really shook my confidence and made me feel very cruel. Incidentally, he was fine this morning, but very, very tired.

I am going to a sleep clinic, but can?t get in touch with them until Wednesday, so would appreciate some advice on what to do if this happens again tonight. They did tell me that the second time could be worse than the first and that the second night is often worse than the first night, but despite knowing this I am dreading tonight. I don?t want to cave in as I know this means starting all over again and will only confuse him further.

can you not try him in his own room? i had probs with dd1 and dh and i ended up sleeping in the living room on an airbed for 3 weeks cos we did find we all slept better. then when dd1 was sleeping better (down to waking once a night) we moved back into our bed. i think it was cos we didnt hear every mew and cry from her and she didnt hear us. hth good luck at clinic xxx

I think the fact that he is still in with us is part of the problem. We do have another bedroom, but my dp's daughter sleeps in it when she comes to stay. I have been trying to move ds into this room for about four months (which means he will have to move back in with us when sd stays), but there is always a reason why we can't eg sd staying over summer and more recently half-term, ds ill, ds starting nursery. He is supposed to be moving this weekend, but I'm sure something will prevent it from happening.

sounds very complicated! why do these things have to be so difficult?! i know of people who have worn earplugs but have no personal experience. could you not just sleep in the living room for a wee while? i cant really think of any other advice (sorry, im useless).

as you said, there is nothing wrong with him when he does cry, he obviously just needs reassurance so pick up put down seems to be the right thing for you to do, or the staying beside him til he falls asleep as you are doing. what will happen at the sleep clinic? i have never heard of that before

At sleep clinic we talk through the reasons why ds wakes and work out ways of solving the problems. It's part of the Healthy Start clinic run by my local authority. They deal with all sorts of problems such as eating and behaviour as well as sleep and it is quite helpful.

sounds great! hope it helps

I am abit hesitant over your wish to go to a sleep clinic. Do sleep clinics do any other methods than CC therefore is it practical. I don´t know but just wondered!

His waking every hour sounds like he might be teething etc. Is he irritable during the day also? He may be better again tonight. The reassuring that you have done in the night for him so far sounds like it is working but just needs afew more nights.

We sleep in the same room as our dd by choice and use similar techniques as you, although because we don´t have a cot, she already has her own bed, that we have not used pu/pd.

Your new post Otto explains the sleep clinic. That sounds good

At sleep clinic we talk through the reasons why ds wakes and work out ways of solving the problems. It's part of the Healthy Start clinic run by my local authority. They deal with all sorts of problems such as eating and behaviour as well as sleep and it is quite helpful.

Otto, did cc with my dd about 3 months ago now when she went through a bad spell, we did not sleep for two weeks! Anyway, I remember that on the first night it seemed to go according to plan, the second night went better, the third night was terrible and it seemed to be getting worse, the fourth night was much much better and by the fifth, she slept through. What I am saying is that some nights it is easier than others, and it is hard sometimes to tell when to go in or not, i just went with my gut but I was often so indecisive that she settled down before I went in!

He's not showing any signs of teething and is perfectly fine and happy during the day otherwise I wouldn't have contemplated leaving him to cry.

Yingers - that makes me feel better. I think because it worked so quickly the first time I wasn't expecting this to happen. I'll just keep my fingers crossed for tonight.

I'm not sure why the 'move' is such a big issue - it's only the room next door! Just pop his cot in there. My ds didn't even notice - honest.

I agree, I would be determined to get him into his own room. My DS1 went in to his own room at 4 months and has slept through the night since then. My DS2 went in his own room (only next door to ours) from 2 weeks, sounds harsh but I felt we were disturbing him if that makes sense. He has been a fabulous sleeper since he was born. (not at the colicky hour though!!!) but always after 10pm. He has been sleeping through the night since he was about 10 weeks old. I give him a last feed at 10pm, give him a nice long cuddle, put him in his sleeping bag and into his own cot in his own room. He's out till 6 - 7am. Best of luck if you do sleep training. THere's a book called Understand sleep by Dr Richard Ferber and its fantastic. You might want to try and get hold of a copy. I thought it was the best thing on it I'd read, and I have to say its worked for me twice. He really explains why what we do sets us up badly in months/years to come and gives great advice. All the best.

I must get the Ferber book as I know lots of people swear by it.

Aloha. I know moving him next door isn't really a big deal, but I have to move him out again whenever sd stays which has been alot recently.

otto, probably best to keep him wher he is then. Good luck with it, ferber is good and nice to have with you when you are going through with it, kinda gives u that extra strength!

I'd still do it, Otto. Honestly, my ds didn't even notice, and I am sure that being in another room or in with us wouldn't have upset him in the slightest. And it will let you find out if he sleeps better on his own. It's just a matter of moving a small bit of furniture. Give it a go tonight! It really doesn't have to be a big deal and I think the longer you dither the more you will dither . You won't know until you try!

I'd still do it, Otto. Honestly, my ds didn't even notice, and I am sure that being in another room or in with us wouldn't have upset him in the slightest. And it will let you find out if he sleeps better on his own. It's just a matter of moving a small bit of furniture. Give it a go tonight! It really doesn't have to be a big deal and I think the longer you dither the more you will dither . You won't know until you try!

BTW my ds was a TERRIBLE sleeper until 8months - shockingly bad. Woke all the time and worse, STAYED AWAKE for hours and hours in the small hours. Grim. But at 8months we did cc and it was suddenly so easy and cured him forever (well, he's three and a bit now and a fantastic sleeper).

I did move him at the start of the summer and he was fine about it, but then had to move him back again shortly afterwards and decided that moving him back and forwards was unsettling for him.

I think I've now made it into more of a problem than it needs to be and I know I just need to get on with it, but if I move him tonight, I have to move him back again on Friday, so will wait until Sunday.

Glad to here that cc worked for you aloha. I know that it does work, but I've just lost confidence because of how he behaved last night and not sure that I'd have the emotional strength to go through that again.

Aloha, how long did it take for it to work? The first time I tried, it took just three days, but I think it will take longer this time round. Ds does know what to do as I put him down in his cot wide awake last night and he went off to sleep on his own. I think that lulled me into a false sense of security, so I was shocked by what followed.

Otto, I think ds was just ready. We went to bed OK, then when he woke in the night he whinged instead of howled for about 15mins max, then less each time..and after that he was fine. It was like a miracle, it really was. I think Sunday would be a good time to move him. Good luck!

Just collected ds from nursery and he has come down with a bad cold , so that's possibly why he was so unsettled last night it also means I have to put the sleep training on hold again. I feel as if I go one step forwards and 10 steps backwards. The next thing will be teething.