Advice on seven month old self soothing

Chocolatebuttercream · 27/07/2021 21:12

In my experience no, a child cannot self-sooth anything like as early as 7 months. And sleep training is not going to work that young as they are not developmentally ready for it. The method you describe- being there but not picking up- is not actually very gentle on the baby as he can see you there and doesn't understand why you are not offering him the comfort he is asking for.

I know it's tough but what he is doing is totally normal. He's tiny and he needs you.

Original poster

endofjune · 27/07/2021 21:15

Thanks. I’ve read different things so it can get confusing. It’s a phase, right? I won’t still be doing this when he’s six?

In all seriousness feel rotten for not picking him up

OP posts:

Chocolatebuttercream · 27/07/2021 21:15

Oh and yes in my opinion a sleep consultant is a massive con. They play on poor exhausted parents and offer miracle cures. There are are miracle cures, your baby is just being a baby, you can't 'cure' them of that! You wouldn't pay someone who offered to make your 7 month old walk or talk or complete a crossword - these are developmental things and so is sleep unfortunately. Good luck OP

Chocolatebuttercream · 27/07/2021 21:19

Have a read of this:
sarahockwell-smith.com/2015/05/14/ten-reasons-to-not-sleep-train-your-baby/

Yes it's a phase, although quite a long one I'm afraid! Most babies need feeding/cuddling/rocking to sleep at every waking. You could try co sleeping if you are finding it exhausting.

FATEdestiny · 27/07/2021 21:19

shouldn’t he be able to self soothe a bit now?

When did you start teaching him? A week ago?

Self soothing (with a comforter, ie dummy) is a learnt behaviour. You need to teach it. If you're waiting for it to come without you teaching baby anything, then around 3-5 years old.

If you started the (no tears, very, very, gentle) process of teaching it from birth, then it is likely to be 3-12 months as an approximation. I'd say 9 months as an average.

If you start the process of teaching baby to self sooth later, it's likely to take longer to learn if using gentle techniques.

Original poster

endofjune · 27/07/2021 21:22

The problem is this is where literature can be confusing. I know Ockwell-Smith is lauded on here but I don’t dare read her books as I was induced and had an EMCS - she made me feel like the worst mother in existence!

He has a dummy @FATEdestiny but he pulls it out and a comforter to hold which is sometimes more successful than others. The odd thing is he sleeps beautifully during the day!

OP posts:

breakfasty · 27/07/2021 21:24

LO got to about 11-12 months before any hint of self soothing. I'd just enjoy the cuddles.

breakfasty · 27/07/2021 21:26

@endofjune

Thanks. I’ve read different things so it can get confusing. It’s a phase, right? I won’t still be doing this when he’s six?

In all seriousness feel rotten for not picking him up

If you feel bad then don't do it. You need to do what makes you both feel comfortable and happy.

FATEdestiny · 27/07/2021 22:20

What is the issue you are trying to solve @endofjune?

Original poster

endofjune · 28/07/2021 08:06

@FATEdestiny I’d ideally like to minimise the wake ups (he doesn’t want anything!) and to have him easier to settle afterwards.

He was up again last night at 1, 3 and 5. DP took over at 4 in the end.

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Bitofachinwag · 28/07/2021 08:11

[quote endofjune]@FATEdestiny I’d ideally like to minimise the wake ups (he doesn’t want anything!) and to have him easier to settle afterwards.

He was up again last night at 1, 3 and 5. DP took over at 4 in the end.[/quote]
Of course he wants something! He wants a cuddle/to make sure an adult is keeping him safe. Sleep deprivation is so hard. Have you considered sleeping closer to him/safe co-sleeping?

Original poster

endofjune · 28/07/2021 08:18

He was actually in bed with me when he woke up repeatedly.

And i hate it. Squirm, kick, punch, on repeat all night

This is where advice can be a bit confusing and contradictory although I appreciate its well meaning. I’m not necessarily expecting him to go 7-7 with no wake ups but I do think waking that many times and struggling to go back down must be tiring for him as well as me! I’m also back at work soon and we do have to have some semblance of organisation and routine - we can’t really have two FT working adults getting by on a few hours broken sleep.

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FATEdestiny · 28/07/2021 09:36

I’d ideally like to minimise the wake ups (he doesn’t want anything!) and to have him easier to settle afterwards.

Both those are doable.

Where are you starting from? You mention starting sleep training in your op. When did that start? And what was happening to get her to sleep before this?

As a start point - I'd bring the cot next to your bed. Ideally as a sidecar cot (One side removed). It means that while you deal with any wake ups, it's much easier and quicker for you to deal with.

Original poster

endofjune · 28/07/2021 09:59

Thank you.

So I read something that said I should be trying to get him to sleep without being held. This didn’t work as he just got more and more hysterical in the cot with me there with my hand on him shushing him. But this was when it was very hot - it was hard because he didn’t want to be held because he was too hot but then he did. Horrible few nights!

So we’ve had various problems with ds sleep. It used to be you had to feed to sleep. That’s been broken now but now you have to move him around, walk him round or bounce him on a yoga ball. In the middle or the night this is obviously impractical so I end up either falling asleep holding him in bed or holding him until he falls asleep and then sneaking him back in his cot. But then he keeps waking up.

We haven’t tried any sleep training yet. But I am looking to get a sleep consultant if the situation hasn’t improved when I’m back at work. I don’t really mind being woken up, the problem is once ds wakes up you won’t be going back to sleep. And that’s hard!

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FATEdestiny · 28/07/2021 10:15

Have you used a dummy from birth or is that new too?

Original poster

endofjune · 28/07/2021 10:18

He has had a dummy since I had to abandon all hopes of breastfeeding so three / four weeks? But he just pulls it out now. Which is really annoying!

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FATEdestiny · 28/07/2021 10:34

Last 4-5 months and it's very difficult to establish a dummy. It needs to be estsblished much earlier to provide the comfort long term. So you have missed the boat with the dummy- I'd get rid since it's serving no purpose by the sounds of it.

OK, this morning's posts put your OP in context.

It does not work. He just gets more and more distressed. Falls asleep as soon as you pick him up but then can take a while to get into cot / crib in the middle of the night.

I’m wary of making generalisations but shouldn’t he be able to self soothe a bit now?

He is not going to be anywhere near being able to self sooth. Because you've never taught it.

To teach him to sleep independently (ie in the cot, not on you) he is going to cry. A lot. A dummy stops this because it's physically impossible to cry while simultaneously sucking. But you don't have a dummy established - So there will be crying. A lot. A very lot

So your initial decision needs to be deciding where your priorities lie with regards to no distress verses quicker independant sleep.

The quicker you want independant sleep, the more distressing and crying there will be.

The slowest, gentlest methods towards independant sleep will have time scales in years.

The fastest, harsh as methods to get independant sleep will have time scales in days.

Then there are all the spaces in between- all of which will involve some degree of crying. Basically because your baby is using the cry to communicate to you that he is tired and wants to sleep and needs help to go to sleep.

So how quickly are you (realistically) hoping to have baby sleeping in the cot?

FATEdestiny · 28/07/2021 10:34

Past* 4-5 months (not "last")

Original poster

endofjune · 28/07/2021 10:38

Thanks. I’m not sure what you mean about not establishing the dummy. He has a dummy but keeps taking it out. He’s had one since being a tiny baby but he’s never been all that bothered about it. It was always a good way of getting him to settle a bit in the pram.

It doesn’t look like we can do much then how long am I looking at until he can self soothe on his own? I mean three years … six … nine?

OP posts:

ReuT3 · 28/07/2021 12:15

@endofjune

Thank you.

So I read something that said I should be trying to get him to sleep without being held. This didn’t work as he just got more and more hysterical in the cot with me there with my hand on him shushing him. But this was when it was very hot - it was hard because he didn’t want to be held because he was too hot but then he did. Horrible few nights!

So we’ve had various problems with ds sleep. It used to be you had to feed to sleep. That’s been broken now but now you have to move him around, walk him round or bounce him on a yoga ball. In the middle or the night this is obviously impractical so I end up either falling asleep holding him in bed or holding him until he falls asleep and then sneaking him back in his cot. But then he keeps waking up.

We haven’t tried any sleep training yet. But I am looking to get a sleep consultant if the situation hasn’t improved when I’m back at work. I don’t really mind being woken up, the problem is once ds wakes up you won’t be going back to sleep. And that’s hard!

A nurse told me baby's like waking up where they went to sleep. We ended up co-sleeping but I made loads of changes. I told DP he was to sleep on the sofabed ( prearranged as my grandparents said I'd need one) at 10 months after starting weaning he put DD to bed in cot later. This way she doesn't smell milk on me and want it when she's not hungry (she'd suckle forever if she could) while on my own on a hot day I'd have wet muslin cloths to keep DD cool during heatwave and try to reduce physical contact by laying at a slight angle away so that the Muslim cloth can be taken off and cooled in the air. ( babies get put off of food when they're hot but drink lots of breast milk when they're hot too. If it's hot it could be that. Our room has had a fan on since it was 25c in the bedroom and it hasn't gone off yet.

I need to finish reading your thread but I hope this is helpful at least.

ReuT3 · 28/07/2021 12:20

@endofjune

He has had a dummy since I had to abandon all hopes of breastfeeding so three / four weeks? But he just pulls it out now. Which is really annoying!

Maybe he's figured out it doesn't have milk in it. Babies usually have feeds in the night and I started night weaning at 10 months. I was breast feeding but maybe the bottle feeds are too thick. When it's hot breast milk gets thinner and they drink little and often.

FATEdestiny · 28/07/2021 16:42

@endofjune

Thanks. I’m not sure what you mean about not establishing the dummy. He has a dummy but keeps taking it out. He’s had one since being a tiny baby but he’s never been all that bothered about it. It was always a good way of getting him to settle a bit in the pram.

It doesn’t look like we can do much then how long am I looking at until he can self soothe on his own? I mean three years … six … nine?

Sorry, I read your 4-5 weeks as 4-5 months. My mistake. Was he previously actively sucking the dumny to self-comfort, and the pulling out is a new thing? If so, try holding his hands in yours as he goes to sleep.

Much less crying when using gentle sleep training methods with a baby using a dummy.

Without any form of teaching independent sleep - it's generally accepted that children need comforting to sleep until preschool age (So 3-5 years, the range because all children develop at different rates). It's to do with emotional development that happens around then.