So, I type this in the dark, in the corridor outside ds' room. I have been here for nearly 1.5 hours. Something tells me I need a plan B

[funnypeculiar]

he's 3.9, and has been settling badly for a few weeks - doesn't want me to leave him/says he's scared. If I sit here, he's fine, but chats to himself for ages.

Sooooo, continue with this, and try and keep getting further away?
Get tougher?
Get a nightlight for him?

We instigated a star chart (have worked well for him & sleep int he past) and he settled on his own perfectly last night .... maybe i just need to give that some time?

dd (4.5) has had a nightlight for a couple of years now as she wouldn't sleep in the dark - those monsters don't you know! Even now, if I turn it off by accident at night and she wakes up, she gets really unsettled, so if you've not got one, I guess it can't do any harm and may help.

how about a little tape/cd player, choose some stories from the library and see is that helps and certainly a night light is a good idea if he is scared.

Get a low light of some sort and leave it on.

It will pass (eventually) and don't stress about it

cd of Mr Men stories worked for us and fairy lights. Remember it s a phase and it will pass. Has anything else changed in his life? My dd went through this when I was pg and when she started school! Good luck x

How many nights have you been sitting outside?

his room.

oh, sorry, he went to sleep so I went and did some useful stuff Thanks all

I'm actually fairly philosophical about it - dh is more keen to get strict

Hmummy - Nothing's changed that i can think of - although thinking about it, he is a bit clingy/not keen to go to c/ms atm.

I'll look out for a good nightlight (tomorrow's thread!), and might try a CD - although I'll work on one step at a time, I think. I can't go to sleep at all with the radio on (very verbally based thought processes) & suspect he'd be the same.

Sixer - it's recent - last couple of weeks - and not every night. Seems to be worse on nights when he's not calmed down (before anyone asks, yes, he has bedtime routine - over about 45 mins - bath, milk, books etc.

Do you know what he's scared of? If monsters, a friend of mine solved this by checking for them before bedtime and squirting anti-monster spray (an empty, relabelled spray can) around the room. If it's the dark, a nightlight, ad/or leaving the door open and saying you are just next door, and can hear him, helps a lot. My DS is younger at 2.5 but also chats away before going to sleep and calls us back in to do randon things like readjust his pyjama legs, just to check we're around - he responds well if I tell him I'm nearby and can hear him.

Are there older children at the CM's? If there are you may have a clue - Older kids - the after school mindees - often like to terrify little ones with stories about monsters and ghosts etc.

my DD who is 3.1yrs old is going through this exact same thing atm..as since she had turned 3 last month she wakes up screaming (she had never done that before) saying that the monsters are in her bedroom..so now on the bottom of her bed weve got a massive Eyeore to watch over her, a massive Tigger to chase the monsters away and a welsh flag, with a red dragon on the front, hung up on the wall by the headboard to burn them!!

she feels safe for the past week

she had started doing this a week before she started pre-school

Agree with snowleopard.
Find out what he's scared of and deal with that.
My ds (just 4) went through a similar thing 6 ish months ago. When asked he said he was scared of monsters. I asked him what are monsters were scared of? Mice? (because elephants are) Which made him laugh and say no monsters were scared of boys and girls (?!). So we agreed he should just tell them to go away (and they'd hear he was a boy) and I'd come and tell them off if they wouldn't go or he could turn his light on and then they'd be really scared. It's not been an issue since. It did take a while to get him to articulate what he was scared of though.

hey - us too!

i sat outside dd's room on mumsnet last night too, you might find my post! she is 3.6 and hasnt mentioned ghosts or anything specific but won't let me leave and when asked says she is scared although what of she doesn't say.

she has at least let me sit outside now, but she takes about 2 hours to go to sleep from going to bed at 730. it seems she doesnt need more than 10.5 hours sleep, which is a pain, but i am intending to gradually getting her up earlier in the morning to give me an evening.

i told her that if she let me leave her for one min i'd bring her a star, which i did which she sticks on her wall, then increase the time limits. a bit like cc i guess but more positive! this worked for a while. now she says she doesnt want any stars. foiled again. she also keeps coming out to ask for silly things, or for another kiss, or for some milk. i say no to everything except the loo and a kiss and cuddle. how can you stick to your guns and say no to a cuddle. breaks my heart. but still, she won't settle and just stay alone for long. i thought about a tape recorder too (she already has a nightlight) but not sure if it would cause more probs - eg, 'mummy i want it again/it's stopped, its too quiet, i don't like this story etc.......'

she is q a picky child.........takes after her dad.......

think i might have to combime sitting outside her room with earlier wakings and gradually withdraw from her room. although she is particular about where i sit too. sigh.

this combined with doing cc with dd2 (8 months) is NOT my idea of a great eve. AND dh has got Heroes on DVD for me which i WANT TO START WATCHING BEFORE I FALL ASLEEP ON THE LANDING

Hey Egypt, not getting any better?

Funnypeculiar, can't help with the gradual retreat thing , here''s what we do:
We gave up about 6 months ago after our last move.
DS is 3.8
If I try the gradual retreat , we'd be at it for hours.
If I sit next to him to read a story (actually 2 stories is the cuurrent price) and hold his hand/stroke his hair/or else, in 5 minutes flat he's snoring.
We have a deal, we do bedtime with him but when it's bed time, that's it. No messing about.

It has made our life much easier. It make him totally relaxed. Is this going to make him an unstable child/adult incapable of finding confort in his own company?
I do fear that a bit as he is avery attached to me.
If anyone got experience/info would live to read it.

Why is knowing that his mummy is prepared to do something that makes him happy and secure and hepls him go to sleep going to make him unstable?

And what is wrong with being very attached to your mummy when you're not quite 4?

Also, what it wrong with taking the line of least resistance - if there is a way that you can be downstairs with your feet up in 5 minutes go for it. I say!

My dd was like this - and eventually we reached a stage when she was about 4.5 where I would put her to bed, say goodnight then go and put the kitchen timer on for 10 minutes and go back and say another goodnight. She was almost always asleep by then, but she was reassured that I was coming back by the timer thing.

She's 11 now and she was poorly last week. One night she said "Can you put the timer on?" !

thank you thank you thank you seeker!!!
That's excatly how I feel.
I understand we have to set boundaries for toddlers but why refuse this?
Just have not seen this view so much on mumsnet and sometimes I think, well if everyone is going for the controlled crying/gradual retreat, then surely there must be a well documented problem with "surrendering".

TBH, It' s such a precious lovely moment in the day!

Isn't it wonderful when their breathing slows right down and they go all soft and their hand relaxes in yours....

DD is 3.8 and we've been using a method like seeker's for about a year. The psychology of it is weird - DD isn't too keen on getting into bed, but will do, and is fine while listening to stories (four, I'm such a soft touch). If she doesn't drop of during the last story, she gets upset, hyperventilates a bit, starts to wind herself up. BUT all I have to say is that I will be back in five minutes (sometimes she even suggests it herself) and she will calm down, often roll over and close her eyes. She is frequently fast asleep by the time I get back - if not she is overjoyed to see me, and perfectly happy to close her eyes and try to get to sleep (more often than not without even the promise of a return visit). I really don't know what it is about it that works, but it does (for now).

i would happily sit with dd IF she were to drop off in 5 mins, 10, 15, 20 - thing is she jsut talks to me and messes, despite me saying i will go if she messes, and carrying it out. it causes loads of tears, so i stay. never ending. she's the kind that won't/can't lie still and close her eyes and relax. she just keeps going and going and GOING until she physically passes out.

so, i guess i have to accept that and just make her happy to be on her own in the eve whilst i go and get on with stuff, returning every few mins to check. meanwhile, i will wait it outside her door until the night when she happily LETS me do that!!!! grrrrrr

AND get her up early early early

bedtime now........here goes

845 - she's asleep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i only sat outside for 10 mins. was better going to bed later, so 8 pm, stories, cuddles, massage, sat outside.....she sang when santa got stuck up the chimney a few times, wanted the door open so she could see me, fell asleep. jolly good! so if i get her up 15 mins earlier tomorrow (7am) she may be asleep by 830pm.

read on another thread the idea about setting a timer to go off in 5 (or whatever) mins, at which time you will come back. can't find where i read it. the chils can set the timer and you take it with you.
let me find the link

my daughter did this.....she was having "bad dreams" and didn't want to go to sleep in case she had a bad dream

I got her a dreamcatcher and hung it over her bed. I told her that it catches all of your dreams and then lets the good ones come down the feathers. It worked for her.

that's a nice idea.