2.5 yo going to sleep at 8pm, waking at 4:50am

[Nobaddays]

My DS is 2.5 and he had always been early riser. However, we used to have an early bedtime to compensate for this between 6:45-7:15pm and he would wake 5:30ish - not ideal but nothing we did would change it (tried shortening naps, earlier/later bedtimes)

For the past two months he has been taking longer to fall asleep and has also been waking earlier. It’s soul destroying and he is absolutely shattered by about 10am.

His routine at the moment is as follows:

4:50am - wakes up, shouts for mummy, shouts to have his nappy changed. DH/I take turns to go lie down in his room. We don’t let him out until the grow clock goes yellow at 6am. We have been using the grow clock for the best part of a year. He still needs one of us in his room otherwise he runs around screaming and we live in a terraced house so need to think of the neighbours.

6am - go downstairs. Has milk and a snack. Plays with toys.

7am - let him watch tv

8am - goes to childminder or if at home has breakfast (he has breakfast at childminder)

12/12:30pm down for nap (but not asleep until 1ish)

He usually naps for an hour but yesterday we were so knackered we all had a nap until 3pm so I think he was asleep for about 2.5hrs.

5/5:30pm - dinner

6/6:30pm go up for bath and bed.

He’s in bed by about 7:15 latest and for the past two months just babbles/runs about his room eventually falling asleep at 8pm. Once he fell asleep at 8:45pm and it made no difference to his wake up time.

The length of his nap seems to make no difference to his wake up time either. For example yesterday he slept for about 2.5hrs but he still had the same wake up time.

We have a 9 day old newborn to add to the mix and the early wake ups combined with the later bed times are just killing us. I would put the wake ups down to the arrival of the newborn but he’s always been an early riser and it’s just got worse before baby arrived.

I don’t know what I can do to make it change. There have been the odd days when he has woken up at 6/7am but I didn’t do anything differently on these days.

We have blackout blinds, live in a quiet area so no noise to wake him, room is a decent temp.

Any suggestions? Ideally I’d like him to actually sleep until 6am but I have no idea how to encourage him to do this. I’d love an earlier bedtime but fear he’ll just run round his room until he’s ready to sleep. I feel so broken.

Cut the nap? DD is 2 & 1/4 and down to 45m max, up by 1.30, otherwise she won’t go down til late (and bedtime is still 8pm on average). On days when she doesn’t nap she’s in bed for 6pm ish and goes through til 6am ish.

(We can’t cut it completely, if she goes too many days without she keels over and has like a 10am or 4pm or other random nap and everything goes to shit.)

I'd suggest 2 things. First how dark is it really? 4.50 coincides with sun rise so I'd suggest you need to completely black it out to full darkness. I did this by buying blackout material and cutting it to just slightly bigger than the window and velcroing it to the window frame making a complete seal. You can also use card boxes.

Secondly you may want to consider dropping the nap completely?

It's so hard to do. But try and get him to drop his nap.
Secondly, would be understand a grow clock? I started using mine before my son's understood. It took some time, but now they both understand not to get out of bed before 'the sun comes up'.

I started setting the sun at 6:30, then 6;45. This morning I set it to 7:30! A bit cheeky of me, but it worked.

We have been using the grow clock for the best part of a year.

I would try getting a new one that works slightly differently - different colour for morning, etc. - to ring the changes, and then introduce it from scratch, explaining that it is sleep time until it goes green (or whatever) and that he mustn't get out of bed until then, but initially setting it for 5am and then moving it forward. If you've been using it for a year then that was before he was reasonably likely to have any understanding of it and now it's just part of the background for him with no meaning - he might have the understanding now for it to actually work but I think you'd need to start from scratch.

He’s in bed by about 7:15 latest and for the past two months just babbles/runs about his room eventually falling asleep at 8pm.

You need yo keep him in bed. Lying down in bed.

This is a behaviour issue. It needs very firm boundaries.

Drop the nap. You say it takes him a while to fall asleep, he clearly isn't tired enough anymore for it. At 2.5 although all kids are different, most of the ones I know who still had naps would be awake till midnight.

DD dropped her remaining one at about 18mths and it was hell for about a week.

Same as others have said. Look at dropping the nap. My boy is similar age and that's what we're working on now. It has been a slow process as like a PP he can't go completely without or he keels over and it all goes to pot but we're down to around twice a week now. Definitely notice the effect on night sleep and bedtime in particular on the nap days. It's like a different child! We're just riding it out and looking forward to when the nap is gone for good!

Thank you all for your advice. He’s actually been getting up at 5:10 for the past few days (20 precious minutes extra). Today he waited until 5:30am before screaming for me to wake up.

We are going to try cutting the naps gradually to see if this makes a difference. It’s just so hard when you have a newborn and need a break during the day but I know it will pass.

His room is definitely pitch black but it does get light when he runs out of bed and flings his door open.

I’m wouldn’t mind the early wake ups so much if he just played by himself or lay down in bed quietly. It’s the screaming/shouting for me which is just too much.

I might just not go in with him in the mornings anymore and hope he gets the message that screaming for me to wake up is not going to work anymore 😣

Totally in the same boat as you with son who is about the same ago too.. although I don't have a baby too! I struggle enough without!
We are currently trying to reduce the daily nap time.. we are at 45 mins at the moment for two weeks, then going to reduce to 30 mins. He wakes at 5.30 every single day and also wakes in the night too! He went through a phase of taking 1.5 hours to settle but this is improving a tad! Can't advise much but can totally sympathise!!

Mine stopped needing the nap when I was heavily pregnant and it was exhausting not having that break so I understand your reluctance to let it go but it sounds like it's time. Mine occasionally falls asleep in the car etc but otherwise no nap. We do have quiet time after lunch though (usually him watching cartoons) so I can sit down with a drink as I also have a small baby

@Higgeldypiggeldy35 sounds brutal. How did you implement the quiet time? I’m not sure where to even begin with that.

By some bloody miracle, DS slept until 6:20am today. He was so so happy when he woke up and was in such a great mood. I’m not even sure what I did differently as he still had 1.5hr nap on Sunday (we needed the break as he was up at 4:50am). The only thing I can think of is he wanted one of us to sleep next to him when he went to bed on Sunday evening but we didn’t give in so he kicked off and screamed for about 20 mins until he gave up and went to sleep. It was hard but he wasn’t distressed, just annoyed he wasn’t getting his way. Please god let this late wake up time continue 🙏

Does he eat anything after dinner? Lots of toddlers at this age need supper before bed...I would try a weetabix/porridge with warm milk before bed and see if that makes a difference. I have a DS of a similar age and he has just got a Yoto player which he is allowed to have on when going to sleep. He picks a story when going to bed and he knows he has to stay lying down for the story...hes usually asleep before the end of the story!

@stopchewingeverything we always offer him an extra snack before bed (something we know he likes like cereal, extra milk or fruit) but he never usually takes us up on it. He usually has a substantial dinner but he’s not always hungry, especially when he comes back from the childminder.

Good to know about the yoto player. I want to get one but might save it for Christmas as he’s received some new toys recently as a gift from the newborn!

@Nobaddays I just whacked the TV on and sat down haha. Otherwise it's reading or puzzles. But honestly usually it's a Disney movie

Brainwashing worked for my two.

Don't rush in to him. I know you worry about your neighbours and baby, but go in very slowly. Sit next to him yawning with your eyes almost closed, no talking or noise or eye contact, pat his bed. Act like it's the middle of the night. Walk away and get back into bed. Repeat if needed (see super nanny videos on YouTube it can take many times). Bore him into relaxing if possible. It is more challenging as you have a baby, but the clock and responding give him interesting signals that you could be awake/waking up. When he goes to bed do the same act, no attention, no running. He needs to see his room as a quiet and relaxed place.