What to do about naps the next day when baby is awake for hours at night?

[qw3rty]

FTM here and confused about over tiredness in babies. I’ve been reading a lot on here, especially @FATEdestiny (thank you!), about over tiredness.

My little one is almost 6 months old. She has a dummy to sleep (which means re-inserting it to sleep when she wakes, which sadly is still a LOT since 4.5 months as her linking of cycles seems elusive - this is a real pain, but I'm happy with the decision at the moment. I've read up on it and I'm hopeful that this will improve with time). At night most times she re-settles reasonably with the dummy, apart from at 3-4am ish when she wakes as hungry. I feed her and then put her back in next-to-bed-crib. Sometimes she goes back to sleep, but more recently she doesn’t and is awake until 5 or 5.30am. This means I can't sleep during the time she is awake unfortnately, as she needs the dummy re-inserting during this time in order to go back to sleep, but it falls out a lot as she is wriggling around.

Ignoring the fact this is stressing me out with lack of sleep, I’m not sure what to do with her the next day. I wake her at normal time (7/7.30am) and try to do naps the normal way. Should I be trying to encourage longer / more naps as she was awake so much the night before? Getting long naps from her is hard at the moment ( @FATEdestiny I tried your bouncer and didn’t work for us, but I do a version involving pushing pram back and forth inside!). I’m worried that she will not make up the sleep ‘debt’ and is just building over tiredness again.

Encouraging sleep the next day is a good plan. But don’t stress yourself out about it.

Have you just got one dummy in the cot? Scattering a few around helps babies find one or gives them a better chance. Might help you get back to sleep.

Thanks @littlebearpad. Ok, so aim for more/longer naps the day after than a 'normal' day. If she ever does nap for a long time, I wake her up at 2 hours so she doesn't get confused about night/day time - should I still do this after a bad night do you think, or let her sleep as long as needs?

Yes we have multiple dummies in the crib and we have a sleepytot as well. Unfortunately it doesn't help at the moment - I'm trying to practice with her in the day, but I think at night when it's dark and she is half asleep it's just not easy enought for her. Really hoping it improves!

I’d let her sleep. I never woke mine up unless we had to go out. I read on here sleep begets sleep and stick to it. It gave me more time to mumsnet 😁

6.5 months was when my LO FINALLY found his dummy in his cot!
It was a game changer, have you got glow in the dark dummies?
When you give her the dummy in the day time put it in her hand so she can learn to co-ordinate to her mouth!

If she wants longer the next day after a bad night let her if she will so she can catch up, and hopefully you can squeeze a nap in too!

Definately encourage more sleep the following day, if you have a bad night. Tgis helps her catch up.

I also wouldn't wake her from a nap. Naps longer than 2h are normal as baby gets older. The only caveat to that is the teatime nap, that one wants to be shortish (30-60 mins) or it messes with bedtime.

Thank you all. Another rough night and getting the first nap this morning was very tough - lots of crying and resisting and puffing (which is new and means her dummy comes out even more). I feel so run down by it sometimes - I feel like all my days involve are trying to get her to sleep. I thought it would get better by 5 months!

@IncyWincy21 - thanks. Yes, I do put it in her hand in the day, but at night she doesn't manage to do it.....yet...your post has given me hope it will be soon. They are not glow in the dark and she will generally only take the type we have now, but I will look into glow in the dark ones or a tape to make the current ones glow, good idea.

@FATEdestiny Thank you. Quick question - do you think (ideally) the morning and lunch nap should be similar lengths, or one longer than other? Or if I just let her wake when she wakes she will fall into her own rhythm with it?

I would let her find her own rhythm. It doesn't matter about nap lengths being the same or different. Some babies have two long naps of around the same length, some have a one sleep cycle nap (usually 45 mins) and a much longer one. Both are fine.

Keep an eye on awake windows. Given you're baby is doing longer naps then 3-nap days want around 2h awake windows. If you're having a 2-nap day then stretch awake windows as the day progresses- for example 2h from waking to am nap, 3h from am nap to pm nap, 4h from pm nap to bedtime.

Sorry to jump on but my question was so similar it seemed silly to start my own thread.

I’m having a similar issue but with my 10 month old.

After a run of illness teething etc he’s nighttime sleep has suffered and he seems overtired. I want to help him catch up but not sure how to go about it

Currently he wakes once overnight then around 6:30-7
First nap is 9:30-10
Second nap used to be 12:45/1-2:45/3 but recently fighting it and not happening until 1:15/1:30-3:15/3

I wake him up after 30 mins in morning, otherwise he would sleep 45 mins but then wake after 45-90 mins at lunch so less sleep overall.

Bedtime is normally around 7pm.

I have a couple of days let him sleep for 2hr15 at lunch. Is this okay to help catch up on some sleep? Or earlier bedtime maybe?

I was thinking of moving everything forward during the day for a bit, to make for an earlier bedtime. And hope he sleeps longer overnight (happy to resettle/feed to achieve this). Just worried about letting naps especially the first one carry on for longer and end up with less sleep overall!

I wake him up after 30 mins in morning, otherwise he would sleep 45 mins

45 minutes is the (average) length of one sleep cycle. The latter part of that sleep cycle bring the deep sleep phase, the most restorative and the part baby needs most. Waking at 30 mins is not a good idea.

I would be inclined to suggest an earlier morning nap. 6.30-7am wake means baby will be ready for a nap at 8.30-9am (2h awake window). This will likely give you a longer morning nap while still not waking after 10am. Then have your afternoon nap around 3h from waking from your morning nap.

For example
6.30/7am wake
8.30/9am-10am nap
1-3pm nap
7pm bedtime

Thanks all. Having one of those 24 hours where I feel increasingly desperate about it all. I think she must be over tired as she is resisting naps with screaming and waking a lot more than usual at night (which I thought was a lot before) and crying so quickly when she wakes. I’m trying really hard to observe the time before next nap and have her in pram ready and pushing it, but she is awake for ages still – I can see her eyelids dropping, but she fights it so hard. Her cortisol must be through the roof and hence waking her up.

I know I’m just going to have to dedicate next few days to getting as many naps for her as possible to get rid of sleep debt. Last night she woke so much before midnight that at 1am I had to leave the room to cry and have a little shout ☹. I’m doubting our dummy decision AGAIN. I know that we’ve taught her, to settle with the dummy and no other way. I’m panicking as (obviously) no one know when she will be able to find and put it in on her own. It could be MONTHS. I don’t know if I can keep doing that for that long. I thought by now that we’d be putting it in a couple of times a night (when she wakes up a bit more), but the majority of the time she would be linking her sleep cycles and not needing it. She’s obviously not linking cycles and so dummy needed so frequently that I’m constantly in a light sleep myself, listening for signs she is waking. My understanding is that linking is developmental and there is not much I can to help – apart from movement which I do for naps, but can’t do at night.

I felt such a sense of dread when I woke up today. Doubting all my decisions.

I’m trying really hard to observe the time before next nap and have her in pram ready and pushing it, but she is awake for ages still

The idea is that she is asleep by the end of the awake window. Include your settling time within the wake window, rather than putting down at the end of the wake window.

For example if it takes you 15-30 minutes to get her to sleep, start settling at least 30 minutes before you expect her to sleep. I say "at least" because on bad days when shes over tired, start settling even sooner. Then either she goes to sleep earlier in wake window, or you have longer to settle her.

For example:
■ wake 7am after an average/reasonable night - start settling for the nap at 8.30am, expecting 30-15 min to settle so asleep by 8.45-9am. The 2h wake window of 9am being the latest you want baby still awake.
■ Wake 7am after a terrible night - start settling for first nap at 8.15-8.20am. The aim is to be asleep at 9am at the latest but it may well be sooner after the bad night.
■ Wake 7am after a really good night - start settling at 8.45-8.50, expecting around 10 mins to go to sleep from a well rested starting point. So still asleep by 9am latest (2h awake window).

Thanks @FATEdestiny, will adjust timings to try take that into account. I guess I naively assumed that we might be going more on actual time of day by now, but I'm learning this parenting is mental and physical gymnastics.

I know in your other posts you've said wait to do naps in crib until they can link cycles. I can't tell in the pram, so presumably I just need to try this every so often in crib. And I just need to ride it out until she can link?

Once she's asleep in the pram, stop moving it. Only start moving it again when she initially begins to stir and is about to wake. If you're getting a nap of 90 minutes plus without needing to touch the pram Once asleep - she's linking sleep cycles.

Also aim to slow down the tempo of the movement over time. And also slow and stop the movement gradually earlier in the process of her going to sleep. The aim should be that once linking sleep cycles, all you're doing at the start of the nap is putting down, giving dummy and a quick one-two-three swish of movement and nothing more. Then stopping that tiny bit of movement and moving naps to the cot is easier. You have to make little changes, often but gradually.

Don’t make yourself a prisoner of naps. If she’s in her pram and you want a break from your house go for a walk.

Are you waking her in the morning because you need to get out for school run etc or because thats when you think she should be awake?

@SleepingStandingUp in the morning do you mean? I wake her in the morning at 7/7.30am ish as all the sleep guides I read say to start the day at the same time each day and around 12 hours from bedtime. We don't have to be anywhere, so I could let her sleep longer in morning if she is asleep.

If she's awake for an hour or so overnight I'd Def let her catch that up of a morning and then do naps as usual