Non sleeping children

[H0p3]

Eve after several serious attempts at sleep training my 17 month old doesn’t sleep. I’ve had the week from hell between work and the kids and am now up in her room while she moans and cries and generally refuses to go back to sleep. She went down fine. I just feel like ending my life right now. I can’t cope with this anymore. My 4 year old also keeps waking at night. Out of the blue just started waking up every few hours, getting into bed with me, just generally not sleeping. And her behaviour has been terrible with refusing to listen/follow instructions/talking back/saying hurtful things to me. I just give up. I can’t keep doing this endlessly. I’ve tried. Really really tried. Been patient, kind, followed expert advice, sleep trained…I don’t know what else to do. Except not be here any more. It’s just all too much. Don’t even know why I’m posting. Don’t see how I can say this to anyone else. Even DH doesn’t understand how I’ve lost the plot so much.

Sleep deprivation is the absolute worse

Why is it only you that has ‘lost the plot’ and not DH too?

You’re a team right?

Oh no! It’s so hard to deal with.
Do you follow call and bright sleep support on Instagram? They work with older children.
I don’t have much advice, but good luck. It will get better, and you can change it. X

Sorry posted too soon. My daughter wasn't a very good sleeper and I thought I would go mad due to lack of sleep. I made up my mind to sleep train her about 17months and haven't looked back. It was a hard couple of weeks but I was consistent, never took her out of her bed and into mine (Although it was really tempting) I just settled her in bed, really quiet, and left the room some nights it's took almost two hours of going in and out.
thankfully it worked and she sleeps through all night now, she's almost 2 and a half. maybe try sleep training again. Perhaps it is a sleep regression and will pass in the next couple of weeks? Does your dh help out with bedtimes and when the dc wake? Perhaps he could help out more. I'm sure someone with better advice will come along soon. Just wanted to let you know you are not alone.

You poor thing, it sounds really tough. You need to get some sleep so maybe try co sleeping with your little one, and let your husband deal with the older one for a night or Two? He could sleep in her room.

From what I can see sleep training isn't a Good longterm solution.

@FTEngineerM he doesn’t seem to have a breaking point and I have a relatively low one through, essentially, ill mental health which I’ve done most of what I can to deal with. He isn’t unkind, or unhelpful, quite the opposite, but he doesn’t get why, on a Friday night when I’ve worked all week and every evening, and the kids have tagged teamed us all week, that I’m beyond upset about spending my night in a dark room shushing a child that I don’t know how to help. He says he’ll do it but misses the point that that still means we get no time together and no life beyond working and trying to get our kids to sleep. I’m clearly having a bad mental health moment but I honestly don’t know how to keep doing this. It feels relentless.

If you are feeling like that please contact your HV or GP ASAP. Share your feeling worth your partner or please call a support line. Your children do need you and despite how futile bedtimes and behaviour struggles feel at the moment, it WILL get better. You aren’t doing anything wrong. Your children aren’t purposely trying to upset you. Parenting is bloody hard sometimes and incredibly frustrating. Take one day at a time and make sure DH is doing his share. It will get better.

I was trying to think of sleep advice but its different for every child and I bet you’ve tried everything I could think of already. Do you have anyone who could take the kids out for a day this weekend so you and Your DH can have some time together or to sleep if you prefer? Or could you book a days annual leave from work while the kids are in their childcare next week? Or even take a sick day on Monday? Seems like you need a break and ideally some time with your DH too

Thank you al. I didn’t really expect any responses so I really appreciate the support.
We do co-sleep when we have to - since sleep training back in February we try to keep this only for illness or when we have spent 2+ hours trying to settle and that was on advice from our sleep consultant.
We have had a particular run of bad luck these last few months. I was hospitalised in March and had to have emergency surgery and then both children got chicken pox, one after the other, so a month of seriously bad sleep habits developed plus we hadn’t really recovered from my unexpected hospitalisation (the baby took that very badly understandably and regressed at that point anyway). We have since tried sleep training again but not with the vigour that we first took it on and it doesn’t seem to have made any difference. I think part of the issue currently is the older one went from finally sleeping through the night and until 7-8am to suddenly waking regularly, getting up earlier and her behaviour has got much worse. In the back of my mind I’m concerned about why as I can’t pinpoint the reasons for it. Except for all of the above which have been beyond my control.

I agree with contacting GP/HV.
Sleep deprivation is real, and horrendous.
Regarding your youngest, what’s her naps like in the day? What time are you putting her down?
Unfortunately have no advise for 4 year as my LO isn’t that age.

Just nodding in sympathetic agreement, with no answers.

OP you are me 2 years ago- a 4 year old that still woke up 4-6 time a night and a one year old still breastfed DS who was also waking 4-6 times a night. And I was working full time. I swear it drove me to the point of hallucination . My solution: I moved my 4 year olds bed next to my double, so I had both kids either side. If 4 year old woke up she would just see me and go back to sleep, and eventually she started to sleep though. We all got more kip, and DH has spent a lot of time on the sofa . In the end, it's about getting enough sleep to survive. They do get there eventually x

@Amammai thank you. You have said what I am feeling (although the opposite!) I feel like a bad parent who can’t get anything right, is failing their kids, and like my children hate me. And I’m taking it way too personally. And I kind of know I am but in my worst moments I don’t know how not to. Thank you for saying it will get better. I have to try to hold onto that.

@CookieMonsterMunch yes, I need a day or two to have some space. No one to take the kids for us sadly although in laws do sleep overs with my eldest occasionally. No one who can have them both for a day but we have taken leave to spend together. Sadly the kids got sick and we spent our leave looking after them as they couldn’t go to childcare. Need to do it again but work won’t allow it until July now. Perhaps it’s something to hold onto though so worth planning now. The lack of respite is what is wearing me down I guess.

I have two non sleepers. I got 5yo onto audiobooks and I've let her have an amazon echo in the room. This solved wake ups as she just asks to turn on a story whenever she wakes.

20 month old is less easy. We co sleep still upon his first wake up - this is often 11pm.so DH and I go up at 10 and watch TV in bed. It's not ideal but at least we are all sleeping most of the night.

Assume you have blackout blinded all rooms?

Is the 4 year old also reacting to your hospitalisation? Could she be coming to check on you in the night to be reassured you’re well and still there? My toddler was very distressed by a hospital stay (toddler was in hospital rather than parent) and I was given some advice about how to help her with those feeling that I’m happy to post if you think it could be helpful.

We did similar to @Bumblenums with one of my kids. We set up a little bed on the floor next to his bed so that if we had to lay with him we could at least sleep too. We gradually moved the bed further away and started sneaking back to our own bed more and more. Whatever works for you and your child just go with it!

@CookieMonsterMunch that would be helpful, thank you. I’m not convinced that’s it, but she has had a very unsettled few months and I’ve no doubt me vanishing for a few days and then returning very unwell and unable to do anything (I had abdominal surgery and was very incapacitated for a couple of weeks) impacted her.

The bed in her room might be an idea - the room is big enough. That’s also helpful so thank you.

I want to send you a virtual hug. You poor thing

I understand the relentlessness of it all. My 16 month old has always been a terrible sleeper and the sleep deprivation has destroyed me, many times over the past year and a half!

Sending you lots of sleep vibes in the hope for a better night for you. My daughter is very unsettled tonight too, teething and a terrible cough aren't a good mix!

@MrsPandigital thank you! Posting on here has helped calm me down so so much. We also have teeth and a cough at the moment - one in a long line of many ailments it seems in the last 6 months! I am sending sleep vibes back your way also and also a solidarity hug (that’s not the right phrase but words fail me right now).

Thank you all. I’m not a MN poster, more a lurker, but tonight I needed the kindness of strangers and some support. Thank you all.

For the child in hospital we were told to play lots of hospital games and let the child lead them (sometimes she was dr, other times patient, or parent). You can try to make them silly and giggly too if the child is interested (so the patient is complaining of tummy ache and I’m a really bad dr who says ‘it must be your foot?’ And starts poking her foot ‘or maybe your ear?’ Etc). Apparently giggling helps release emotion.

The child who wasn’t ill, but was struggling with the separation from mummy (maybe this is actually more relevant for you) they mentioned 2 games: 1) mummy becomes the mummy monster - chase them and when you catch them give them loads of cuddles and kisses and let them wriggle away and start again. 2) you and your DH playfully grab an arm or a leg and pretend to fight over child and gently pull him towards you and say ‘he’s mine’ ‘no he’s mine’. DC1 absolutely loved this one. Makes them feel very wanted that’s for sure! If nothing else we had fun with these but they did seem to help too.

I think as soon as you can with the 17 month old get them into a bed to break the current routine.

If your DH doesn't have a breaking point, let him bend further. Let him sit and pat her to sleep and although you aren't together, make yourself a cuppa and try to do something for you.
18 mo twin2 was in my bed at 4.30 and refused to sleep, then 5 yo joined in. DH woke at 6 and took them down and I slept til 8 with a few interuptions. Twin1 then refused to sleep until 9.30pm so I'm sending solidarity hugs you way.

Can you get a night away alone? Just one decent sleep!

Nothing much to add apart from solidarity and support! Mine are 4 & 7 now but I was where you are 2-3 years ago.

I also took the path of least resistance and got a little chair bed for my room so DD1 could sleep next to us and we have a super king bed so baby could be in it if needed

I also go cused on the first sleep of the night with my rubbishy ad-hoc version of sleep training and over time we got there in that I didn’t have to spend the whole evening settling the baby down. But equally when I was reaching the end of my tether intermittently I’d just go to bed with the baby and get my sleep on.

Eventually things improved and DH and I got an hour or two in the evening of just being adult humans together rather than house-mates working shifts as parents!

I feel for you so much. It’s a living hell, but it will get better.

Focused not go cused!