7mo night wakings - please help

[DressingGown87]

My DD 7.5months was a good sleeper until the 4month regression. Then we sort of got back on track, until her teeth cut and she got a cold. Now nearly every night, she is up multiple times. Sometimes she will settle quick once you pop the dummy back in, other times she is crying for hours on end and nothing settles her. What could I do to help? I’m not trying to get her to sleep through (although that would be a luxury) just not wake as much, or settle easier.

7pm bedtime. Awake 1/2 hours later, settle with dummy. Then repeat. Then between 1-2 she will wake, I have done CC, but she just gets worse (plus the neighbour complained) offered a feed but she will mostly refuse this. Etc. Co sleeping doesn’t work.

She’s in a cot, own room, black out, has a dummy (several placed in cot), has white noise. Cot is reclined for reflux.

Will self settle at naps and bedtime, within 5 minutes. Naps are generally 30minutes (but working on extending these), so is she overtired? Bedtime is around 7pm

This is having a huge impact on feeding and weaning. She’s reduced her milk intake, but has no / little interest in food. Just cries as soon as she even sees a spoon. So I don’t know if she is not having enough calories? HV is concerned as she thinks she should have progressed more with weaning now (3.5months in) and her weight is dropping. But then the nights she slept, she will happily sit and eat. Hence why I’m trying to fix the sleep issue, in hope that the weaning comes in time.

This is also impact my MH, I have anxiety (have done for years) and PND. But I seem to manage ok when I’ve got some rest. Single mum, so going it alone. And I’m working From home, although my work load is building as I can’t work in the evenings as I’m exhausted.

Would love to here any words of wisdom or advice, it’s greatly appreciated.

weight is dropping

This is very concerning. Do you actually mean she has lost weight? Or that she is gaining weight but slowly (ie dropping centile lines?

No baby, at any point, should lose weight and physically be lighter then they were. If this is happening then without question calorie deficit is an issue. I suspect you might need a paediatric referal for supplemental feeding. Speak to your GP as soon as possible.

For more immediate help...

She’s reduced her milk intake

Milk intake needs to go up, up, up. Don't focus on sleep - focus on milk. Don't focus on solids- focus on milk. More milk, mire frequently.

If you're breastfeeding and baby is refusing, give formula if baby is losing weight - the calories are vital (and far more important than the ethics of breast v bottle).

By far the easiest and fastest way to get calories into baby is milk (formula or breast). Early weaning solids are low calorie, so should not be replacing milk, only in addition to milk.

From 6m to 9m (ish) milk intake should bed at least maintained at pre-weanibg levels, often it increases over these months even with solid diet being added. Decreases to milk intake come 9-12m.

So, how to get more milk into baby? Feed more frequently.

Stomach size limits how much milk can be taken per feed. So instead of trying to give more per feed, have more feeds per day. It's ok to give a full milk feed every 2h in the daytime - 8 feeds a day. Plus night feeds whenever needed.

Does she have undiagnosed allergies? My LO was like this and had allergies we went aware of, food caused reflux to worsen through both allergy but also solids reflux is more irritant.

He didn't really eat 'properly' until around 18m-2years, until this point he still chugged milk. Didn't really touch food. He's fine and we never had concerns from professionals, probably because he had diagnosed problems and it was our down to that.

I agree with you that sleep probably is part of the problem aswell, 30min naps arnt long if that's not her norm, vicious cycle though isn't it?! I agree with PP, don't be afraid to fill her up with milk, food will come (but worth checking there's no medical reason for it). Offer food but remember the saying 'food is for fun until they are one'.

I should have said she is CMPA, reflux, and under paediatric care.

@FATEdestiny Yes she has dropped from 95th centile line to 50th, weighed monthly by HV. No weight change in last 4weeks.
She is FF and on CMPA milk. I have been offering a bottle in the night, and more frequently during the day, to try and increase her milk intake. Tried different cups, not bottles. But when she’s tired she just doesn’t want much. Honestly I am trying, spoke to GP, HV, who all keep saying about weaning, and if I giving milk then she’s not going to eat. I do understand that is my main focus, do you think this is what is impacting sleep?

@SlB09 thank you. Yes she does (forgot that from the main post) so wondering if that is the cause. She was diagnosed at 3weeks. So the PD doc advised solids at 5months, and she’s been ratty since. I’ve cried so much over food. Everyone else baby (friends and family) just sits there and eats happily, trying different things, mine protests so much and screams murder. I have tried ignoring food altogether and just given her milk, but makes no difference. But the days she slept and napped well, she will sit and eat and drink 5/6 milk feeds.

I do understand that is my main focus, do you think this is what is impacting sleep?

I appreciate the chicken and egg situation you are in with feeding and sleeping, I didn't realise all the medical issues you were having.

I'm more of a sleep expert than feeding, but my understanding is that babies with known allergies like CMPA are often allergic/intolerant to other foods too - soya, dairy, nuts, I've heard of some fruits also causing issues. I guess the point I'm making is that you know the CMPA milk you are already giving baby doesn't cause an allergic reaction, but any foods might. So the easiest and safest way to get calories in fast is milk rather than solids.

I'd also make any solids you give to be high calorie - look for healthy fats and carbs. For example lots of oil use (given butter/cream are out). Avocado and bananas. I'm probably telling you things you already know here, as I said I'm no feeding expert.

Not gaining weight is clearly close to physically losing weight and (as I'm sure you are your HV realise) quite serious for a baby. While slow weight gain (seen by dropping centiles but still gaining weight) is not uncommon -- failing to thrive by not growing bigger need more serious intervention.

In terms of sleep and lack of calories, there's actually a line whereby a baby seriously low on calories will be very sleepy and sleep a lot. So thankfully you are not there.

It's difficult to know exactly what's causing sleep issues - it could be pain from food intolerances from the new foods now being digested. It could be simple hunger. It could be both.

Agree with @FATEdestiny. My LO also had soya allergy, carrot (pollen type allergy) and strawberries....which lots of baby food have in! We wondered why he was still so ratty. Also he couldn't have some of the extensively hydrolysed milk as it still contained soya protients so double check that. Look up oral allergy syndrome, my little boy used to get this from carrots, makes the mouth and throat really itch and they feel crappy, my LO used to look for cardboard to chew when he'd had carrots because of the irritation to his mouth and just got an aversion to food.
7 months is still so very young to be worrying about solid foods, if your happy with baby led weaning just offer, eventually they will try, just no pressure and this way they are in charge.
I totally get the 'everyone else's are tucking in' bit though, I was exactly the same and to be honest still am sometimes as he's still a eat little and often kind of guy and rarely sits to eat a full 'meal' - when everyone else's toddlers seem to eat a full Sunday dinner . He's happy and healthy though so I don't worry.
It'll come, just do whatever works for you both x

You could try some piriton to see if it helps, might help distinguish allergy? But also just introduce one food at a time so you know what's reacting

@FATEdestiny and @SlB09 thank you both.

I suppose I just stuck in a is this food / other problem or a sleep problem. For the last two days I’ve focused on milk, and sleep (avoided food). She’s drank better, napped for longer than 30minutes (at least once a day). Night one she slept 13hours straight, night two, I watched her settle herself no issues for 12 hour sleep.
Today she’s been happy, and had egg for lunch, and here we are 2.5 hours of thrashing around, crying out. Awake 6.30am, nap 8.15-10.00, lunch, nap 12.20-1.20, nap 4-4.45 (5.30 tea refused) bedtime 7.00.
She woke at 9pm settled with dummy, 11pm woke and hasn’t settled since. She will doze off for 5minutes then wake again, crying.

Milk intake has been good today. So would you say this could be possibly allergy to the egg? Or digestion problem? Or under / overtired. Or just a bad night suck it up situation.

@fatedestiny I know your speciality is sleep, but I’m just trying to figure out if there is a cause? I don’t want to try keep feeding her, if I’m upsetting her stomach, and causing this distress. But then I also don’t want to tend to her every wake, if she needs to learn how to settle.

@SlB09 yes already figured strawberries as one. But will avoid carrot thank you. I just feel like a “weaning failure”. I think it’s just tough as she was very unsettled as a newborn, but diagnosed with CMPA and she was such a happy little girl, slept amazing. Now bad sleep, has coincided with weaning and I’m just so lost. Think coping on my own too, is draining me.

She does have a follow on pediatric appointment at the hospital in 2weeks. So am keeping a food / milk and sleep log, so I can see if there is a pattern to discuss, and try get some advice.

Oh I’m so sorry this sounds so stressful. It sounds like she could be intolerant to egg if it was causing her to be so disrupted afterwards. How have her poos been? Any mucus? Any excema or anything? How is she just on plain veg? I really hope they can help you at the hospital, my DS also has CMPA and is a poor sleeper (but no difference really noticed with weaning). It’s really hard and you have my solidarity!

@Poppy709 thank you. She has one poo a day (generally morning), sometimes 2. Whereas before it was up to 13 a day! They vary from dark green / grey, to yellow. But usually quite runny. Think I’m just confused on what’s normal. No mucus or excama though (this time). It’s so tough isn’t it, hope your little one gets better. Will try her just on broccoli today. A

She did settle last night at 3ish, then up at 5am, then 7am. Followed by an explosive yellow, liquid nappy. Happy again now.

It does sound like there are definately some food intolerances from what you've described if she's sleeping well and settled with just milk then been very unsettled with egg. Suppose that exactly what they would suggest with a good challenge (although probably keep it out of the diet for two weeks then trial it). Your not a weaning failure AT ALL, let's be clear about that. Weaning allergy refluxy babies is hard work! And especially in your own.

They may want to do skin prick testing on her from the next peads appointment but great your keeping a diary that will help. Early weaning doesn't work for all babies to help, I have friends where early weaning did the opposite, personally I don't think one size fits all.

There will be odd days/week where sleep etc goes out the window but it sounds like there's a pretty clear link from what you've said. Hang in there you'll figure it out!! As a side note my LO didn't have eczema etc with the other allergies. Slight skin rash sometimes but more just unsettled, lots of night wakings and unable to settle easily/very ratty

@SlB09 thank you. It’s such a puzzle, trying to work it out. 3meals she’s had today (all which I thought where safe foods) and she’s inconsolable this evening. But she has been in childcare all day, and probably exhausted.

It’s true I don’t think one size fits all, she seems to do so much better and is so much happier on milk. But then I can’t not give her food. Seems out LO are similar, as it seems to be lots of crying and unsettle nights / thrashing. Not the obvious signs. Out of curiosity how old is your LO now? And when / if did it get easier?

It's really hard and to be honest I found a pure guessing game for those early days! My LB is now 3.5 and a lovely mostly calm Kind and thoughtful little boy, but by god the first 12-18m we're hard until we figured out the added allergies/sensitivities. Full disclosure he didn't sleep through (other than the very odd night) until about a few months ago and this seems to have coincided with being able to start the milk ladder. Until this point he still woke up for milk in the night once from about 3y and twice from around 2-3yrs as he wasn't eating full meals during the day, still abit refluxy especially if poorly/viral but actually this was a huge improvement from where we had been (had also tried alllll the sleep solutions only making him worse so just accepted it wasnt something I could fix with training it was related to his health and couldn't do alot about that other than ensure no allergens in diet etc). Also very sensitive to noise/disturbance so we also used white noise and then moved to kids podcasts/nursery rhymes which helped alot as I guess he felt less 'on his own'. I also read that as they get older white noise can make things worse as they don't have the normal stimulus e.g little household noises and this in turn makes seperation anxiety worse, it did help definately.

Day to day things got much better from 12months then better again 18m, 2-3 (minus tantrums) was lovely and way way easier as they can communicate abit more what's wrong and it's not so much guess work. The reflux remained but gradually got better and better and now it's rare. We still have to be careful with diet as any lapses result in restlessness, short temper and not knowing where to put himself and nighttime wake-ups but thankfully these are few and far between. I also started working with an immunology/allergy specialist nurse who explained about oral allergy syndrome etc and it all clicked into place!

It will get infinately better but don't feel bad for finding it hard because it really is!! Other thing is it worth trying ranitadinenor omeorazole if you havnt already and see if this makes things any better?