SOMEONE PLEASE help figure out my 5am waker

[GalaxyGirl24]

8.5month DD has been waking at 4.45/5am consistently for a month or so now. We are absolutely knackered, despite trying to get to bed earlier it still knocks us when she starts shouting at that time. Plus, she is tired and then wants to nap at 8 understandably, which means all naps are earlier meaning bedtime can be 5.30pm as she is shattered.

I have tried all sorts:

• We have a pitch black room
• we have consistent white noise all night
• the room is a good temp
• no neighbour noise as she's in the end terrace side of the house
• I dream feed at around 10/10.30pm still as she's always been a snacker and doesn't do huge feeds. She feeds like every 2-2.5 hours in the day for 5/10 mins.
• she does feed to sleep but is also able to fall asleep independently depending on her inclinations that day.

Also, I am aware her bedtime is early. We have tried over a period of a week or two to move everything later but she was honestly so knackered and it made her stressed and affected her eczema so currently naps are around 8.15/8.30 as that's the latest I can push her, then 12.30/1ish usually.

Could it just be the 8-10 month regression and we have to ride it out?

She goes to bed at 5.30pm?

You realise that 10h overnight sleep at this age is in the range of "normal" (normal range is 10-12h).

Put in a third nap and get that bedtime significantly later.

Agree you need a much later bedtime. My some had his last nap at about 4pm for an hour then went to bed about 8ish

She won't take a 3rd nap, she stopped it around 6/7 months and point blank refuses to nap. Also at 8.5 months the majority of babies have transitioned to 2 naps as far as I'm aware so that ship has sailed for us. She usually does a good stretch of 6-10, then 10.30ish/11-5 but would be amazing to get her to 6am!

You need to keep pushing the bedtime back. Even if it’s just by 1 extra minute each day.

There is no way she’ll awaken any later if she’s going to bed at 5:30

Sorry not clear, majority of babies apparently transition to 2 naps by 9 months so at 8.5 months seems counter intuitive to go backwards even if I could, which I can't as I've been trying to get her to keep 3 naps going but she refused a 3rd nap from around 6/7 months and would cry and cry no matter how much we shushed, rocked, patted, sang to her to settle her.

Yes tonight I've managed to achieve 7 pm as she was awake 3-4 am so slept in till 6.30am.
Hence all the naps were able to be shifted but that's really unusual for her.

It's not 5.30pm every day, maybe once a week but was just saying that it can be as early as that time. Usually more like 6pm ish.

I seem to be getting a general consensus that bedtime needs shifting. I will see how she gets on tonight after her 7 on bedtime. Fingers crossed.

We have tried shifting it on previously as noted in my OP but it is hard on her and it didn't produce any good results, still had 5am but just a cranky baby. Hoping it's just a regression that will pass as she's generally an okay sleeper prior to this!

I had a 5/5.30 habit with my youngest for months even now at 4.5 he’s up around 6.45

I agree with others you need to push back bedtime somehow 5.30 is just too early

I'm afraid I have to agree, it won't be pretty for a few days/week or so but have a meal/feed at 530, bath then bed will push it back enough to make a difference.

Thanks all! Going to see how she gets on tonight. We were able to achieve 7pm as we had a day of fantastic naps so hopefully it will be a tipping point in terms of timings for tomorrow and so on.

I know in my heart she needs a later bedtime but I think I've been soft because she's so visibly tired and upset I've given in. Also she suffers the same eczema cues as me (tiredness abs stress) and I hate to see her so worked up.

the majority of babies...

They key point to resolve your 5am wake up is:

The majority of babies this stageneed 11h overnight sleep. A smaller number are happy at 10h or 12h. So expect 11h overnight sleep. And if you get a morning wake up after 10h, don't be surprised. It's to be expected.

So... your bedtime needs to be much later. If you want a wake up time around 7am (and would be ok with anything from 6am to 8am). Then your baby needs to be awake until 8pm.

So really you need to think of the best way to get bedtime later by 2 hours. You could:

• make both naps as late as possible by keeping baby very busy all day.
• make morning nap shorter to add in a third nap.
• try to make both naps as longer and also stretch awake times.
• make bedtime 15 minutes later each day until you get to 8pm.

I know in my heart she needs a later bedtime but I think I've been soft because she's so visibly tired and upset I've given in

But you are argument you won't give a third nap for fear or going backwards? I don't understand. The idea would be to not make her over tired and stressed by allowing for more sleep. But you would rather her get stresses and have a flare up because of taking a backward step (that will ultimately lead to multiple forward steps)?

Let's say:
5am wake
(2h awake time)
7-7.45am nap
(2h 45 awake time)
10.30am-12.30pm nap
(3h awake time)
3.30pm-4.15pm nap
(3h 45 awake time)
8pm bed

You will have several days of 8pm bedtimes and still get 5am wake ups. It takes a good 3 weeks of consistency to see a change in body clock. So baby will need to make up for that lack of sleep somewhere.

Over time the hope is that wake up time pushes later, so first two naps push later and so no third nap needed. The third nap is merely an interim to see you through without her getting stressed and over tired

I had a couple of 05:00 am wakes recently, I read that if they wake after 05:00 then it tends to be a habit at this age (8 months+) if you are clear it's not hunger, too cold etc. Therefore the idea is that after 05:00 if they wake don't go in and settle as if you do they (sorry I keep saying they I have twins) will just think it's time to get up- I def found this to be the case as not matter what we did trying to settle at that time in morning just wasn't working. Instead you leave them, it took about 2 mornings and we were back to 07:00 wake ups, the being unsettled didn't last long, they did not cry much at all, more groaning and moaning. Anyway, just an idea as it did work for us. Good luck with whatever you do

@FATEdestiny Thanks, I'm going to try and move the naps later. Her later bedtime yesterday of 7pm worked and she woke at 6.15am. I am absolutely fine with a 6am wake up to be honest it's just 5.30am that kills me!
Will definitely be trying to keep the trend going with later naps to push bedtime to 6.45/as close to 7 again today.

Also, it's not just that I don't want to go backward with a 3rd nap it's that she also will not take one! She is now awake from 2nd nap to bedtime. And to be honest, I don't want a bedtime as late as 8pm, I think 7pm is absolutely perfect for her so I'll aim for that.

@twinnovice I read the same advice I think. She used to sleep until 6.30/7 despite her early bedtime of 6pm ish. We tried the whole leaving her thing and after about 15 mins she gets hysterical unfortunately 😖 we had success yesterday with her being asleep by 7pm and a 10.30 dream feed so will try again tonight! 6.15am wake up wooo!