How to transition to 2 naps from 3

[donutosaurus]

Hi all,

I'm a STM and cannot for the life of me recall doing this first time around!

I have largely been using wake windows and this has led to my baby napping really well, much better than my first.

However, she's now 8 months old and wakes every single morning at 5am without fail. I am trying to move her to two naps as she doesn't really need that third sleep as when she has it she will not go to sleep at 7 due to the nap (IMO).

But she often wakes before 3pm as due to her early waking she goes down to nap a little earlier than others her age.

How do I get her to go from 2/2.30 through to 6.30/7 as at the moment she is overly tired come bedtime. I guess she will fix this but I'm keen to do what I can to make life more bearable for everyone (I have a toddler too).

Any ideas?

Tia

What's your full daytime nap schedule?

Is baby sleeping through from 6.30/7pm to 5am?

Hi,

I don't know if I'm doing things right or wrong ...

So baby wakes between 5/5.20 usually

Nap 1 0830-0845 usually until 10

Nap 2 12.30/12.45 for between 1 hour 30 mins ( I give a 3rd nap here) or sometimes 2-2 hours 15 mins (no 3rd nap but early bedtime)

Today I cut the first nap short as I am worried this is contributing to the early waking.
5.05am woke up
6.09am-6.37am went back to sleep (sometimes does this but not often)
8.58am-10.06am Nap 1
12.48pm-2.54pm Nap 2
6.38pm bedtime

Today was unusual in that she went back to sleep. I don't usually get her up until after 6 as I am trying not to reinforce the early waking. She's very good and will just lie in her cot (I feel like this is really weird - my other daughter shouts for attention as soon as she's awake but everyone I know says to just accept it and be grateful but I worry it's a sign that something is not right beyond the reflux issue).

She doesn't feed very well, probably because she suffers from reflux which is currently medicated.

Her room is completely blacked out, it's the right temp, she's as fed during the day as I can get her to be, she has white noise etc.

In total she usually naps for 3hours (3.5 on a good day and 2.5 on a bad day but less frequent Han the 3 hours average). She doesn't nap before 8am or after 5pm and morning wake time would be 7am but we never reach 6 never mind 7! Her worst wake up times have been 4.45 🤦🏻‍♀️

Thanks

I wouldn't cut the first nap short. But I would stretch the awake time between Nap 1 and Nap 2.

There's a general rule for 2-nap days that is summerised as 234. These are awake windows in hours. So your awake window between waking in the morning and first nap wants to be 2h, then between 1st nap and 2nd nap a 3h awake time. Then from 2nd nap to bedtime a 4h awake time.

This isn't a set in stone rule. But you can use it for an idea that your awake windows should stretch throughout the day. I can see that your send awake window is shorter than your first awake window. It may be that she's over tired by the first sleep of the day and that throws everything out.

The textbook timings for your days would be something like:
Wake 5.30am
(2h awake)
Nap 1: 7.30am-9am
(3h awake)
Nap 2: 12pm - 2.30pm
(4h awake)
6.30pm bedtime

Aim for naps as long as possible, so that if sleeping longer it ultimately pushes bedtime later and so in turn knocks wake up time later. Also try to stretch that last awake window on days when she's slept well in the daytime. If had good naps then you could try for keeping her up until 7-7.30pm.

Can't you just put her to bed a bit later? Would that help with the early mornings? My 8mo goes to bed between 7.30 and 8.30 usually, so 6.30 sounds quite early to me.

@FATEdestiny thanks for this. I had heard of the 2,3,4 approach but just wasn't sure how to execute it as everything I had read said not to do nap 1 too early.

I'll give your schedule a whirl! I feel like I have tried everything else!

Thank you so much for giving so much thought to my problem - I really appreciate it

@Nowisthemonthofmaying I have tried doing later bedtimes but all that happens is that I lose my evening (which I sue to tidy away the chaos of the day 🙈) and she still wakes at the same time.

She also gets really over tired as she just can't make it that late from her last nap. Her intended bedtime is 7pm but she just can't do it atm.

Hopefully one day soon things will change!

Hi @donutosaurus, I wondered how are you getting on with the nap transition?
I am in the same boat with a 5am wake ups and early bed times. Am flipping between early bedtimes or 3rd nap and later bedtimes which I don't think is helping from a consistency perspective. My boy is 9 months old today.
X

@EL1984
Hey, our wake ups have moved to 5.40 for the last 2/3 days which is better. But bed time has become horrendous - my DD is still awake having been put to bed at 7 tonight.

She just lies there, wide awake - she looks settled and you could be forgiven for thinking she's asleep but she's not. Every now and the she wriggles around or babbles.

We're trying her with a bottle of milk now as she just really needs to go to sleep. We were meant to be having a morning out at a local farm tomorrow but I fear this is going to be a disaster.

She recently restarted taking Omeprazole and I'm wondering if this might be causing her to struggle getting to sleep.

Sorry, not really a help for you at all.

Have you tried changing up your routine

@EL1984 sorry posted too early?

What have you tried?

We have played around with nap timings and lengths as well as changing bed times.

My DD is learning to crawl but is also pulling herself up to standing so I guess some of her wakefulness may be due to this. Except she's working early every day since about January so in my head I know it can't be this little phase! I'm wondering if my DD early wakes could be reflux related? Who knows though!!

I hope you get a slightly later morning tomorrow!! Fingers crossed!!

Good morning!!

How did your night go? I know what you mean about not wanting g to go out anywhere!

We've only been trying for the 2 nap transition for about a week now. Just moved house last Sunday so thought it was a good time to change up the routine.
My LO has never been a great sleeper, the 4m regression was horrendous. I got him self settling around 5.5months which helped, his naps instantly lengthened for the first few days but then some 30min ones would pop up. We generally have a week of good naps then some rubbish ones and back to good. He very rarely does 2hrs at lunch. Is more like 1hr 20 morning, 1hr 20 lunch.
We've also always had a problem with waking in the early morning and he has slept on my lap from around 5ish to get m closer to 7am since 4m sleep regression.
Though the week before we moved hpuse he was doing just one wake up in the night for a feed and sleeping in his cot till about 6.15am which was a miracle.
Tonight he slept till 3.45am till he woke for his first feed, back asleep at 4.10am I thought he might get past 5am but no :( sat here with him asleep on me.

Interesting you mention reflux/tummy problems. I got a sleep consultant to try and get his naps improving and stop him sleeping on my lap after 5am. She was a bit perplexed given he could fall asleep on his own why some naps were only 1 cycle so with the 5am business suggested he might have digestion issue or silent reflux. So I've cut out a few foods (dairy, wheat & legumes) and kept a food diary to see if that helps but hasn't really done anything I don't think. I've introduced wheat back in and will do dairy in a couple of weeks.

Sorry, I can't help with her not falling asleep at night. Maybe overtired??
My LO has learnt to crawl and stand up in the last 2 months and was taking forever to settle for naps and was waking up practicing in the night but it is a phase and I think you have to let them. When he would take ages to fall asleep for a nap I would go in every 10mims and pop him back down on his back with the comforter and occasionally pat his bum to remind him it is sleep time. He would usually fall asleep in a heap after about half an hr.
That phase lasted about 6 weeks, he falls asleep much quicker now.

My DD does naps at lunch of 1 hour 20 too! We sometimes make it to 2 hours but more like 1 hr 20!

I think with exclusion diets they suggest 6 weeks. We're now bottle feeding but previously I cut dairy and my HV said it takes quite a long time to get it out of your system.

It sounds like your son settled really well after moving house - that's always a worry isn't it!

My DD woke at 4am this morning - I cannot get her back to sleep. I have tried everything! 🙈

My DD just lies there usually, not actually practicing her new moves! I have no idea how to help her sleep a bit more. She must be so tired!

If only they would sleep!!

@E1984 hey, we've had a couple of successes ...

On Tuesday my DD woke at 4 and I gave her a night feed which doesn't usually have but I felt she was hungry. She then actually went back to sleep until 6.45!!

On Wednesday she slept until 6.30!

The. This morning she was woken at 7.05! Sod's law, I had to get up at 5.30am to take my eldest to the hospital for an op. It I'm really hoping we might be making progress.

She's not sleeping well between going down and 9/10pm but I figure this could be linked to a sleep regression.

Hope you're seeing an improvement x